From ted at tux.org Wed Jul 1 05:11:49 2009 From: ted at tux.org (Ted Arden) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 08:11:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] Linux netbook for $150 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Swantje wrote: > Underneath the picture it says: > > *$149.99 after Instant Savings! See price in cart. Reg price $249.99-$100 > instant savings = $149.99 !* - > (Details > ) schweet.. in for 1. =ted= From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Wed Jul 1 09:28:10 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:28:10 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] FW: Linux for kids Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266DF4F27E@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Sent to me by my dad via Google Reader: Linux for Children via Stepcase Lifehack by Dustin Wax on 6/29/09 =============================================================== He thought folks here might be interested - Tom --------------------------------------------------------------- I recently took possession of a pair of older PCs - the natural consequence of nagging one's older relatives to get something a little more "post-Columbian" - and of course my first instinct is to refurbish one as a Linux PC for my nephew and niece, ages 7 and 5. My nephew, especially, is computer-obsessed, and I figure that giving him a complete child-friendly, education-focused PC might encourage some more productive "play" than he gets using mom and dad's PC. Kid-Friendly Linux Distributions Believe it or not, there are several distributions of Linux intended for use by children as young as 3 years old. Child-oriented Linux distros tend to have a simplified interface with large, "chunky", colorful icons and a specialized set of programs designed with kids in mind. Some of the better-known distributions aimed at children include: - Sugar, the operating system designed for the One Laptop Per Child project. Sugar is a radical departure from traditional desktops, with a strong emphasis on teaching programming skills, but is very strongly geared towards classroom use. Although I'm pretty comfortable using Linux, I'm afraid Sugar might be too different for me to help my nephew and niece make use of it. - Edubuntu is based on the popular Ubuntu distribution. Designed to be easy to install and very Windows-like in its operation, Edubuntu would be my first choice if I were using newer hardware. With its rich graphical interface, though, I worry that these years-old PCs, neither of which have graphic cards, will lag running Edubuntu. And given kids' attention spans, I'm afraid that would be a major barrier to getting them to use it. - LinuxKidX uses a KDE-based desktop highly customized for children, and is based on the Slackware distro. The only drawback for me is that most of the support material is in Portuguese (although the distro I linked to is in English), making it hard for me to be confident about my ability to help if there are any problems. - Foresight for Kids is based on Foresight Linux, a distro distinguished by the use of the Conary package manager. Conary is intended to make updates and dependencies much easier to manage than other package managers - in English, it should be easier to install and update software. On the other hand, finding software packaged for the Conary installer might be a challenge, though I expect the most popular programs are being adapted by the Foresight team. - Qimo is another system based on Ubuntu, but designed to be used by a single home user instead of in classroom instruction. The system requirements are fairly low, since it's designed to be run on donated equipment which Qimo's parent organization, QuinnCo, distributes to needy kids. Given the low specs of the equipment I"m working with, Qimo seems idea for me, but since most of these will run from either a Live CD or a USB memory key, there's no reason not to download them all and give each a try to see what you - and, more importantly, your kids - like best. Linux Software for Kids In addition to the kid-friendly interface, all of the distributions above come with an assortment of software that's either designed especially for kids or has special appeal for kids. This includes specifically educational software intended to teach math, typing, art, or even computer programming; typical productivity applications like word processors and graphics programs; and, of course, games. Of course, Linux doesn't have nearly the range of games that are available for Windows PCs, but my thinking is, the games are good enough for younger kids, and older kids will gravitate towards consoles (my brother and sister-in-law have a Wii). Some of the software available for kids includes: - GCompris, a set of over 100 educational games intended to teach everything from basic computer use to reading, art history, telling time, and vector drawing. - Childsplay is another collection of games, with an emphasis on memory skills. - TuxPaint, an amazing drawing program filled with fun sound effects and neat effects. - EToys is a scripting environment, more or less. The idea is that kids solve problems by breaking them down into pieces, scripting them, and running their scripts - the same way programmers do. But the goal doesn't seem to be to teach programming but rather to provide an immersive learning environment in which kids learn foundational thinking skills. - SuperTux and Secret Maryo are Super Mario clones, because kids love Super Mario. You already know that. - TomBoy, a wiki-like note-taking program. - TuxTyping, a typing game intended to help develop basic typing skills. - Kalzium is a guide to the periodic table and a database of information about chemistry and the elements. Great for older students. - Atomix, a cool little game where kids build molecules out of atoms. - Tux of Math Command is an arcade game that helps develop math skills. Not all distros come with all of these games, but they are easy enough to install from the online repositories if your chosen distro doesn't come with one or more of them. Of course, most distros also come with standard Linux programs like OpenOffice.org (an Office-like suite of productivity apps), AbiWord (a Word-like word processor), GIMP (a powerful image editor), Pidgin (a multi-account IM client), and Firefox. Linux is a complex operating system, but it's also a highly customizable one - for kids, that means a system that can grow as they do and a powerful learning environment. Of course, children's computer use should not be totally unsupervised - any kid can stumble across Web content that might be pretty uncomfortable for mom and dad to have to explain - but kids should have a chance to explore the possibilities of today's technology and get their hands dirty, like kids do. And worst-case scenario - your 6-year old borks the operating system and you re-install. Wouldn't you rather it was on the Edubuntu system, rather than on your mission-critical work PC? (Make sure you back up the /home directory regularly so you don't lose all your kids' drawings, poems, stories, or whatever.) Do you know of other kid=friendly Linux distributions? Have you set up a Linux PC for your kids? Are their other games or programs you'd recommend? Let us know your experiences in the comments. Dustin M. Wax is the project manager at Stepcase Lifehack. He is also the creator of The Writer's Technology Companion, a site devoted to the tools of the writing trade. When he's not writing, he teaches anthropology and gender studies in Las Vegas, NV. He is the author of Don't Be Stupid: A Guide to Learning, Studying, and Succeeding at College. Follow him on Twitter: @dwax. From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Wed Jul 1 09:34:06 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:34:06 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] FW: Linux for kids (part 2) Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266DF4F27F@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> [the second part of the article] Sent to me by my dad via Google Reader: 10 More Linux Resources for Kids via Stepcase Lifehack by Dustin Wax on 6/30/09 =================================================================== Yesterday, I wrote about Linux distributions designed with kids' needs in mind and some of the software for children that runs on Linux. Today I thought I'd share some of the other resources I came across while researching a likely candidate to install on my nephew's and niece's new PC. - Switching Your Kids to Linux by Scott K. This is a great primer for parents getting ready to give their kids a Linux system. The author walks parents through the steps of getting your kids ready, such as making sure open source software like Firefox, Pidgin, and Thunderbird are already installed on any Windows systems your kids might use, so that when you give them their Linux system, the only thing they have to get used to is the new interface, not new programs. Be sure to read the comments on this one for some further insights and advice from other parents who are teaching their kids to use Linux. - The Linux for Kids Experiment. Paul Barry at Linux Journal relates his experience getting his kids to use Linux - which proved to be easier than even he had thought. One good tip he gives is to set up a window with links to all the kids' favorite apps (or the most appropriate ones) so that kids can access them more easily. Again, there's some good information in the comments, too. - SchoolForge is a directory of open source educational software. Though SchoolForge includes software for Windows and Mac as well as Linux, most programs will run on Linux and everything is clearly marked. - Open Source Programming Languages for Kids. Although not every kid will be interested in learning to program, some will, and Linux offers plenty of tools to help kids learn from basic to pretty advanced programming concepts. Ryan McGrath reviews three programming languages and kid-friendly environments to learn how to use them. These will run on Windows or Mac, too, so don't feel left out if you aren't quite ready to build a Linux system for your kids! - Using Linux to Teach Kids How to Program by Anderson Silva. Since programming is a complex skill, parents may want a little direction in how to get their kids started. Anderson Silva discusses some of the basics of LOGO, a programming tool where kids learn programming syntax to make a "turtle" draw pictures. - KidZui is a Firefox extension that transforms your plain-vanilla browser into a kid-safe Web browsing environment, with access to hundreds of thousands of pre-screened websites, videos, and games. It is vital, of course, that you teach your kids safe browsing habits and that you provide appropriate supervision when they're using the Internet, but for younger kids this can be especially difficult - how do you explain what they shouldn't do without having to explain concepts they may not be ready to understand? A safe "sandbox" like KidZui offers a safety net to back up your own instruction - and helps parents find fun stuff for their kids to do online, too! - Adobe Flash Player. Because of licensing issues, many Linux distros do not come with Flash installed. However, your kids will quickly tire of their YouTube- and Flash-game-free computer, so it's a good idea to get it installed quickly. Just go to the link from your kids' Linux computer, select "Linux", and follow the instructions to get Flash up and running on your Linux box. - Free eBooks and AudioBooks for Mobile Computers. I went looking for a decent eBook reader for my nephew's and niece's computer, and found this site with links to dozens of eBook resources. Because it's intended for mobile computing, some of the resources listed are for Linux-based PDAs, not PCs, but other than that there are a lot of great resources here, from readers to websites to download free AudioBooks and eBooks. - YuuGuu. Since I'm going to be supporting this computer, I want to have some way to access it remotely. LogMeIn, my preferred remote access service, doesn't have a Linux server yet (though one is supposed to be coming by the end of this year). VNC works great and is pre-installed on most distros, but is complex to set up on a home system behind a router and without a static IP address (if none of that means anything to you, it would be even more complex for you to do!). YuuGuu is the only desktop sharing service I could find that is both free and Linux-ready, so I'll give it a try - the only downside is that it looks like I"ll have to have someone initiate a session from the kids' computer in order to do remote support. [TE: of course, there is always ssh - you could even use "Putty" if all you have available is a windows client to log in with (such as from a computer "at work")] - My Game Company is a distributor of "family-friendly" games for all platforms, including Linux. Linux isn't known as a gaming platform, but there are some pretty good titles out there, and even some commercial games. The owners of My Game Country screen them all for excessive violence, foul language, and adult sexuality to provide parents with games they can be sure won't raise too many difficult questions in young players' minds. Although the owners are explicitly Christian, the game content itself is not Christian - and I think the standards they use will please most parents Christian or otherwise. I'm a little disappointed at the lack of resources available for parents looking to explore Linux with their kids. It's surprising, since Linux has virtually created the huge niche of childhood computing as an affordable alternative to Windows for schools in poor countries. There are now-defunct sites like "linuxforkids.org" that appear to have once been developing resources, but are now only link farms. I'll be happy to see new players on the field paying some attention to what seems poised to become an important computing niche. Maybe you know some good resources. If you know of anything, let us know in the comments! Dustin M. Wax is the project manager at Stepcase Lifehack. He is also the creator of The Writer's Technology Companion, a site devoted to the tools of the writing trade. When he's not writing, he teaches anthropology and gender studies in Las Vegas, NV. He is the author of Don't Be Stupid: A Guide to Learning, Studying, and Succeeding at College. Follow him on Twitter: @dwax. From jana.lingo at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 10:57:51 2009 From: jana.lingo at gmail.com (Jana Lingo) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:57:51 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Linux netbook for $150 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can install Ubuntu in case your are philsophically opposed to Xandros .....:) On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 5:11 AM, Ted Arden wrote: > > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Swantje wrote: > >> Underneath the picture it says: >> >> *$149.99 after Instant Savings! See price in cart. Reg price $249.99-$100 >> instant savings = $149.99 !* - >> (Details >> ) > > > schweet.. in for 1. > > =ted= > > From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Wed Jul 1 11:03:38 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:03:38 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Need a qmail "expert" Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266DF4F2A6@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> I've got a strange problem with a system that uses qmail. Messages sent to a specific EXISTING user are getting bounced with "no mailbox here with that name" Messages to other existing users are fine; aliases set up via ~alias/.qmail-aliasname work when sending to other users within the system. I did find one interesting twist to it: if messages are sent to another domain, the other domain may reject them in funny ways - for instance, I've got an interesting log file that essentially states: receiving message for aliasname at domain from tom.emerson at wbconsultant.com sending new message to tom.emerson at wbconsultant.com remote host said "571 - invalid IP" bouncing message to tom.emerson at wbconsultant.com remote host said "OK" Upon looking up error "571", it seems to be an anti-spam result code related to SPF. Because my original message came FROM "tom.emerson at wbconsultant.com", the server receiving the message saw the sender as myself instead of @domain; looked up the sender's "authorized hosts", and found the IP address didn't match. Because the BOUNCE came "from" @domain, however, it was allowed through. But that seems to be a side issue - what would prevent qmail from delivering to an existing local user? One hitch to this story - it seems the UID for this user was previously used (multiple admins over time using different tools to set up accounts - namely, the command-line "adduser/useradd" command vs. the web/gui based "webmin" program) - UID's generated by one start at 500, while the other program starts at 1000. It seems that one or the other of these was used to create a user with a previously existing UID. The "overwritten" user wasn't actually used anyway (and I've since deleted the account's /home directory) but could this be a potential problem here? From dank at kegel.com Wed Jul 1 15:01:14 2009 From: dank at kegel.com (Dan Kegel) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:01:14 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Running Jaunty or Koala? Please help me diagnose an updater problem... Message-ID: Hey folks, I just noticed that Jaunty's update-notifier has what looks like a bug: it gets confused when the system rolls the logs in /var/logs, and doesn't show nonsecurity updates for the next week. Since the logs are rolled weekly, this means users might not see any update notifications at all until the next security update. If you're running Ubuntu 9.04 or higher of any flavor, could you have a look at http://kegel.com/linux/ubuntu-autoupdate-diagnostic-pl.txt and run it (e.g. wget http://kegel.com/linux/ubuntu-autoupdate-diagnostic-pl.txt perl ubuntu-autoupdate-diagnostic-pl.txt ) and email me with the output? Don't run it until you read it. After all, I could be a wolf in sheep's clothing... Thanks, Dan From jek at ininx.com Wed Jul 1 16:06:14 2009 From: jek at ininx.com (John E. Kreznar) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:06:14 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Need a qmail "expert" References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266DF4F2A6@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In a message purporting to be from "Emerson, Tom (*IC)" but lacking a digital signature, it is written: > I've got a strange problem with a system that uses qmail. Messages > sent to a specific EXISTING user are getting bounced with "no > mailbox here with that name" > Messages to other existing users are fine; aliases set up via > ~alias/.qmail-aliasname work when sending to other users within the > system. Been a while since I used qmail, but as I recall, it's quite fussy about mailbox permissions. Check the permissions of that user's Maildir. - -- John E. Kreznar jek at ininx.com 9F1148454619A5F08550 705961A47CC541AFEF13 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ iD8DBQFKS+vKYaR8xUGv7xMRAuobAKCEn+XukzsLVc1lqMIBjkYWdVCqqQCeLtdZ j3K91VMKBhTmAymxYHOB3jc= =I9EH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jek at ininx.com Wed Jul 1 16:34:21 2009 From: jek at ininx.com (John E. Kreznar) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:34:21 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Need a qmail "expert" References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266DF4F2A6@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In a message purporting to be from "Emerson, Tom (*IC)" but lacking a digital signature, it is written: > I've got a strange problem with a system that uses qmail. Messages > sent to a specific EXISTING user are getting bounced with "no > mailbox here with that name" > Messages to other existing users are fine; aliases set up via > ~alias/.qmail-aliasname work when sending to other users within the > system. As well as mailbox permissions for that user, mentioned in my previous post, another thing to worry about is whether that user matches any of the special categories identified in the qmail configuration for that host, perhaps files in /etc/qmail. As I recall, certain matches there can lead to mail refusal. - -- John E. Kreznar jek at ininx.com 9F1148454619A5F08550 705961A47CC541AFEF13 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ iD8DBQFKS/J0YaR8xUGv7xMRAm2/AJwNo5M3q8x5Y9ZAgl6jFtI74s+ALQCfUn0R vzDmSOPKJBfc3l+F58YYo4Q= =A67S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From red744t at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 17:50:26 2009 From: red744t at yahoo.com (John Wang) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:50:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] Any AVR user groups in LA? In-Reply-To: <4A32939F.1060007@thewybles.com> References: <447860.45761.qm@web63201.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <4A32939F.1060007@thewybles.com> Message-ID: <391303.38572.qm@web63206.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I took one of the Arduino class offered by la.thepublicschool.org on electro-mechanism http://la.thepublicschool.org/class/233 and it was a good learning experience for me, as someone not too familiar with electronics. I was quite surprised by how easily I was able to get Arduino software running on Debian. Plug it in via the usb and it works like magic. Anyway for anyone who may be interested there's another class on audio coming up, http://la.thepublicschool.org/class/1341 and I think there will be a few more project based Arduino classes in the future. If I want to setup a small electronic workshop does anyone know where I can buy some used basic equipments like oscilloscopes, function generators, and power supplies? Anyway, thanks for the info on micro-controller.. John ________________________________ From: Charles Wyble To: SGVLUG Discussion List. Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 10:42:55 AM Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] Any AVR user groups in LA? There is machineshop, 23b and thepublicschool. http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/23b_Shop http://machineproject.com/ http://la.thepublicschool.org/ John Wang wrote: > Hi, > > Thank you guys for arranging the meeting and I really picked up a lot of useful information. Anyway, I am wondering if there are any AVR or microcontroller user groups here in LA/OC or even SD? > Thanks, > > John > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20090701/b61dce5f/attachment.html From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Wed Jul 1 17:55:07 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 17:55:07 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Need a qmail "expert" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266DF4F31D@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> > -----Original Message----- Of John E. Kreznar > > > I've got a strange problem with a system that uses qmail. Messages > > sent to a specific EXISTING user are getting bounced with > "no mailbox > > here with that name" > > > Messages to other existing users are fine; aliases set up via > > ~alias/.qmail-aliasname work when sending to other users within the > > system. > > As well as mailbox permissions for that user, mentioned in my > previous post, another thing to worry about is whether that > user matches any of the special categories identified in the > qmail configuration for that host, perhaps files in > /etc/qmail. As I recall, certain matches there can lead to > mail refusal. Turns out the problem was less sinister than that - the "user" in question had an account name IN ALL CAPS. The "adduser" command doesn't allow this, but apparently the webmin (?) web-based unix/linux administration setup/system DOES allow it. (of course, since in the course of "fixing" it, the account in question was purged and re-built via the adduser command to a lower-cased name, so it's entirely possible the old account did indeed have something munged as far as the permissions were concerned and rebuilding solved that, but as I was working this out, I paid close attention to permissions and they all seemed to be OK) From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Wed Jul 1 18:07:34 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:07:34 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Any AVR user groups in LA? In-Reply-To: <391303.38572.qm@web63206.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266DF4F320@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> -----Original Message-----Of John Wang I took one of the Arduino class offered by la.thepublicschool.org on electro-mechanism http://la.thepublicschool.org/class/233 and it was a good learning experience for me, ... Anyway for anyone who may be interested there's another class on audio coming up, http://la.thepublicschool.org/class/1341 ======================================== I was just thinking the other day that I needed to check back into this website since it was mentioned last time - thanks for the "postive reinforcement" reminder [i.e., a simple link to click ;) ] Too bad the timing is a little short on this one - looks like today is/was the last day to get a discount (ok, all of $5) and the deadline is next Friday (the 11th) - this is too busy of a week/weekend to be thinking about this (for me, at least) so I may end up passing on it Tangentially related: The other day, though, I came across another microcontroller, known as the "propeller" chip [and uses the "spin" language...] - aparently, it is an 8-core microcontroller (www.parallax.com) From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 3 06:20:43 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 06:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] SGVLUG meeting Thur 7/9 7-9pm+ Topic: Fedora Message-ID: <62394.79926.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi! We have a guest speaker coming down from Santa Cruz to present for us this July! *** SO PLEASE HELP SPREAD THE WORD! *** please post the announcement as appropriate and please invite your friends to join us. I would like to see a full room! ALSO, if there are any particular questions you have about Fedora which you would like asked you can drop me a note or Larry a note so that he can be a bit more prepared ;) SGVLUG July 9th 7-9pm, afterwards join us at BC to continue the conversation with food and drinks ( don't worry we get separate checks ;) When: July 9th, 2009 Time: 7-9pm+ ( and at BC afterwards ) Location: 107 Downs at Caltech Campus in Pasadena more info: http://www.sgvlug.org/ Topic summary: Fedora 11, code named Leonidas, is the latest offering from Fedora. With over 60 improvements and new features, Fedora 11 will be demonstrated at the meeting. About me: Larry Cafiero is the Regional Ambassador for the U.S. West Coast for the Fedora Project. He is also a senior partner at Redwood Digital Research in Felton, California (Santa Cruz County), which is a small business/SOHO computer maintenance and networking firm utilizing FOSS programs. He also blogs as "Larry the Free Software Guy" at http://larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordpress.com See you at the meeting! thanks and have a great holiday weekend! matti ps - is the mailing list for sgvlug.net and sgvlug.org the same??? From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 3 06:20:43 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 06:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] SGVLUG meeting Thur 7/9 7-9pm+ Topic: Fedora Message-ID: <62394.79926.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi! We have a guest speaker coming down from Santa Cruz to present for us this July! *** SO PLEASE HELP SPREAD THE WORD! *** please post the announcement as appropriate and please invite your friends to join us. I would like to see a full room! ALSO, if there are any particular questions you have about Fedora which you would like asked you can drop me a note or Larry a note so that he can be a bit more prepared ;) SGVLUG July 9th 7-9pm, afterwards join us at BC to continue the conversation with food and drinks ( don't worry we get separate checks ;) When: July 9th, 2009 Time: 7-9pm+ ( and at BC afterwards ) Location: 107 Downs at Caltech Campus in Pasadena more info: http://www.sgvlug.org/ Topic summary: Fedora 11, code named Leonidas, is the latest offering from Fedora. With over 60 improvements and new features, Fedora 11 will be demonstrated at the meeting. About me: Larry Cafiero is the Regional Ambassador for the U.S. West Coast for the Fedora Project. He is also a senior partner at Redwood Digital Research in Felton, California (Santa Cruz County), which is a small business/SOHO computer maintenance and networking firm utilizing FOSS programs. He also blogs as "Larry the Free Software Guy" at http://larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordpress.com See you at the meeting! thanks and have a great holiday weekend! matti ps - is the mailing list for sgvlug.net and sgvlug.org the same??? From courier at braydon.com Fri Jul 3 13:41:35 2009 From: courier at braydon.com (Braydon Fuller) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:41:35 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] SGVLUG meeting Thur 7/9 7-9pm+ Topic: Fedora In-Reply-To: <62394.79926.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <62394.79926.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A4E6CFF.6070508@braydon.com> Okay I posted it on my blog.... feel free to use the collage I made.... it's a bit horrible (could use a few more passes), but it was fun to put together.... :P http://braydon.com/blog/2009/7/3/fedora-11-demonstration-thursday-july-9th-caltech matti wrote: > Hi! > > We have a guest speaker coming down from Santa Cruz to > present for us this July! > > *** SO PLEASE HELP SPREAD THE WORD! *** > > please post the announcement as appropriate > and please invite your friends to join us. > > > I would like to see a full room! > > ALSO, if there are any particular questions you have > about Fedora which you would like asked you > can drop me a note or Larry a note so that > he can be a bit more prepared ;) > > > SGVLUG July 9th 7-9pm, afterwards join us at BC to > continue the conversation with food and drinks > ( don't worry we get separate checks ;) > > When: July 9th, 2009 > Time: 7-9pm+ ( and at BC afterwards ) > Location: 107 Downs at Caltech Campus in Pasadena > more info: http://www.sgvlug.org/ > > Topic summary: Fedora 11, code named Leonidas, is the latest offering from Fedora. With over 60 improvements and new features, Fedora 11 will be demonstrated at the meeting. > > About me: Larry Cafiero is the Regional Ambassador for the U.S. West Coast for the Fedora Project. He is also a senior partner at Redwood Digital Research in Felton, California (Santa Cruz County), which is a small business/SOHO computer maintenance and networking firm utilizing FOSS programs. He also blogs as "Larry the Free Software Guy" at http://larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordpress.com > > > See you at the meeting! > thanks and have a great holiday weekend! > matti > > > ps - is the mailing list for sgvlug.net and sgvlug.org the > same??? > > > > > From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 3 16:07:44 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] SGVLUG meeting Thur 7/9 7-9pm+ Topic: Fedora Message-ID: <97829.40151.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That's really cool!!!! THANKS Braydon! Does anyone have access to a color printer to print out a few of these so we can post at Caltech?? thanks! matti --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Braydon Fuller wrote: > From: Braydon Fuller > Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] SGVLUG meeting Thur 7/9 7-9pm+ Topic: Fedora > Okay I posted it on my blog.... feel > free to use the collage I made.... > it's a bit horrible (could use a few more passes), but it > was fun to put > together.... :P > > http://braydon.com/blog/2009/7/3/fedora-11-demonstration-thursday-july-9th-caltech > From courier at braydon.com Fri Jul 3 16:20:33 2009 From: courier at braydon.com (Braydon Fuller) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:20:33 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] SGVLUG meeting Thur 7/9 7-9pm+ Topic: Fedora In-Reply-To: <97829.40151.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <97829.40151.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A4E9241.30609@braydon.com> Only B/W laser here, but that would be awesome! :) matti wrote: > That's really cool!!!! > > THANKS Braydon! > > > > Does anyone have access to a color printer to > print out a few of these so we can post at > Caltech?? > > thanks! > matti > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Braydon Fuller wrote: > > >> From: Braydon Fuller >> Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] SGVLUG meeting Thur 7/9 7-9pm+ Topic: Fedora >> > > >> Okay I posted it on my blog.... feel >> free to use the collage I made.... >> it's a bit horrible (could use a few more passes), but it >> was fun to put >> together.... :P >> >> http://braydon.com/blog/2009/7/3/fedora-11-demonstration-thursday-july-9th-caltech >> >> > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20090703/2ce1ed26/attachment.html From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 03:22:57 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 03:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] Meeting this THUR 7/9 7-9pm! Please help promote it! Message-ID: <356405.73476.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi! Remember we have a great meeting lined up for this THUR!! A special guest speaker from up north will come down here to sunny california JUST for US!!!! So please spread the word and lets get a nice showing for Larry. Braydon made a great flyer, so PLEASE printout a copy or 2 and post it as appropriate. ( especially if you're on campus or at caltech. ) http://braydon.com/blog/2009/7/3/fedora-11-demonstration-thursday-july-9th-caltech Also, here's a list of various other conferences and events which I think many of you will find interesting. SGVLUG meeting, THUR July 9 2009 Caltech, Pasadena Topic: Fedora http://www.sgvlug.org/ OSCON July 20-24, 2009 San Jose CA http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2009 Def Con 17, July 30 - August 2, 2009 Los Vegas NV http://www.defcon.org/ SGVLUG meeting, THUR Aug 7 2009 Caltech, Pasadena http://www.sgvlug.org/ "Linux World" -> now Open Source World Aug 12-13, San Francisco CA http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/ SciPy 2009, the 8th Python in Science conference, August 18-23, 2009 at Caltech in Pasadena, CA, USA. http://conference.scipy.org/ see you at the meeting thur! matti http://www.sgvlug.org/ From jek at ininx.com Wed Jul 8 15:03:53 2009 From: jek at ininx.com (John E. Kreznar) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:03:53 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Google's new OS move Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Google's new OS move deserves notice on this mailing list. Google Starts New Microsoft War with Chrome OS Reuters By chris.thompson - The Big Money When Google (GOOG) launched Android, the open-source operating system designed to power mobile Internet devices, industry analysts were surprised to discover that PC manufacturers had begun to use it to power netbooks, ... Chrome OS: What Is Google's Goal? BusinessWeek Charge of Google's light brigade BBC News http://www.reuters.com/article/bigMoney/idUS158548184120090708 [So, where does Chrome come in? I thought Chrome was the browser, and Android the Linux-based operating system. --jek] - -- John E. Kreznar jek at ininx.com 9F1148454619A5F08550 705961A47CC541AFEF13 "[What open source is actually achieving is to reduce] the ability of proprietary companies to collect secrecy rent." -- Eric S. Raymond -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ iD8DBQFKVRewYaR8xUGv7xMRAlaoAJ9bDS0zbVp+GA2O8G75Hk2Yz/BW1gCeM2FL KJ1s4aboU1IgsAG3/RUaC4o= =0C0P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Wed Jul 8 15:39:34 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 15:39:34 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Google's new OS move In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E8956@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> > -----Original Message----- Of John E. Kreznar > > Google Starts New Microsoft War with Chrome OS > [...] When Google launched Android, the open-source operating system ... > > Chrome OS: What Is Google's Goal? BusinessWeek > > [So, where does Chrome come in? I thought Chrome was the > browser, and Android the Linux-based operating system. --jek] What's so unusual about that? For Years, Microsoft has made the claim that their graphically-oriented "shell" called "Windows" is an operating system, so why not a browser as the OS? -- Windows (win'-doze) 95 (n.): 32-bit extensions to a 16-bit graphical shell for an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor by a 2-bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. From dank at kegel.com Wed Jul 8 15:43:44 2009 From: dank at kegel.com (Dan Kegel) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 15:43:44 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Google's new OS move In-Reply-To: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E8956@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E8956@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Emerson, Tom (*IC) wrote: >> [So, where does Chrome come in? ?I thought Chrome was the >> browser, and Android the Linux-based operating system. ?--jek] > > What's so unusual about that? ?For Years, Microsoft has made the claim that their graphically-oriented "shell" called "Windows" is an operating system, so why not a browser as the OS? Compare with the CrunchPad recently in the press ( http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/1656853,ihnatko-techcruch-crunchpad-070809.article ) which runs the browser and not much else. I think the intent of the CrunchPad is to be *only* a web browser rather than a general purpose computer. Or compare with a Kindle... which is *only* a pdf reader, not a general purpose computer. Does that help? - Dan From jek at ininx.com Wed Jul 8 18:03:41 2009 From: jek at ininx.com (John E. Kreznar) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:03:41 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Google's new OS move References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E8956@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In a posting purporting to be from Dan Kegel but lacking a digital signature, it is written: > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Emerson, Tom > (*IC) wrote: >>> [So, where does Chrome come in? I thought Chrome was the >>> browser, and Android the Linux-based operating system. --jek] >> What's so unusual about that? For Years, Microsoft has made the >> claim that their graphically-oriented "shell" called "Windows" is >> an operating system, so why not a browser as the OS? > Compare with the CrunchPad ... which runs the browser and not much > else. > I think the intent of the CrunchPad is to be *only* a web browser > rather than a general purpose computer. > Or compare with a Kindle... which is *only* a pdf reader, not a > general purpose computer. > Does that help? Well, I suppose that bash and emacs and latex and so on run under Android. Do these and the other gazillion programs that we use every day run under Chrome? - -- John E. Kreznar jek at ininx.com 9F1148454619A5F08550 705961A47CC541AFEF13 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ iD8DBQFKVT7gYaR8xUGv7xMRAvLQAJ42Y/0RpYk0hJb0trxFAjhBCdVhfwCfesh2 BuvsKq1RJZBvtRQpfFLmBqM= =/ntt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From courier at braydon.com Wed Jul 8 18:22:56 2009 From: courier at braydon.com (Braydon Fuller) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:22:56 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] June 11th Video Presentation In-Reply-To: References: <4A321D76.3090006@braydon.com> Message-ID: <4A554670.4040604@braydon.com> I needed this also to work with a Python framework (CherryPy), so I've written a Python Package that will work with any Python web framework. http://braydon.com/blog/2009/7/9/universvideo ... while not PHP, or Drupal, I'd like to model a PHP library on it so an to easily integrate as a Drupal Module, Joomla Module, WordPress Plugin, or what have you. Miguel Hernandez wrote: > Thanks again for your insightful presentation, Braydon! It gave me a > few ideas about how to implement it into Drupal but I?ll ping you > about that offline. > > A couple of the other links you gave (re: HTML 5) which I jotted down: > http://tinyvid.tv > http://openvideo.dailymotion.com > > --miguel From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 21:31:34 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 21:31:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] SGVLUG meeting Thur 7-9pm Topic: Fedora Message-ID: <962255.31661.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi! *** Meeting Thur 7/9 7-9pm *** PLEASE HELP spread the word! iirc, craigslist, email,... Printout the nice flyer Braydon made (thanks!) and pass it to a friend or 2.. http://braydon.com/blog/2009/7/3/fedora-11-demonstration-thursday-july-9th-caltech We have a guest speaker coming down from Santa Cruz to present for us this July! *** SO PLEASE HELP SPREAD THE WORD! *** please post the announcement as appropriate and please invite your friends to join us. I would like to see a full room! ALSO, if there are any particular questions you have about Fedora which you would like asked you can drop me a note or Larry a note so that he can be a bit more prepared ;) SGVLUG July 9th 7-9pm, afterwards join us at BC to continue the conversation with food and drinks ( don't worry we get separate checks ;) When: July 9th, 2009 Time: 7-9pm+ ( and at BC afterwards ) Location: 107 Downs at Caltech Campus in Pasadena more info: http://www.sgvlug.org/ Topic summary: Fedora 11, code named Leonidas, is the latest offering from Fedora. With over 60 improvements and new features, Fedora 11 will be demonstrated at the meeting. About me: Larry Cafiero is the Regional Ambassador for the U.S. West Coast for the Fedora Project. He is also a senior partner at Redwood Digital Research in Felton, California (Santa Cruz County), which is a small business/SOHO computer maintenance and networking firm utilizing FOSS programs. He also blogs as "Larry the Free Software Guy" at http://larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordpress.com See you at the meeting! thanks and have a great holiday weekend! matti From baldguru at mac.com Thu Jul 9 06:41:51 2009 From: baldguru at mac.com (Charles Blanchard) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 06:41:51 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Google's new OS move In-Reply-To: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E8956@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E8956@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <133B9F2E-0058-4202-AB19-4C51E17904D8@mac.com> On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Emerson, Tom (*IC) wrote: > Windows (win'-doze) 95 (n.): 32-bit extensions to a 16-bit graphical > shell for an > 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor > by a 2-bit > company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. Ha, first time I've seen this one! Gave me a nice chuckle to start the morning... -- cheers, Charlie Blanchard Quantum-Touch? Certified Practitioner & Instructor www.baldguru.com (626) 215-1301 Twitter ID: baldguru Facebook.com/baldguru From dank at kegel.com Thu Jul 9 08:20:49 2009 From: dank at kegel.com (Dan Kegel) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 08:20:49 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Google's new OS move In-Reply-To: References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E8956@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:03 PM, John E. Kreznar wrote: >>>> [So, where does Chrome come in? ?I thought Chrome was the >>>> browser, and Android the Linux-based operating system. ?--jek] > >>> What's so unusual about that? ?For Years, Microsoft has made the >>> claim that their graphically-oriented "shell" called "Windows" is >>> an operating system, so why not a browser as the OS? >> >> I think the intent of the CrunchPad is to be *only* a web browser >> rather than a general purpose computer. > > Well, I suppose that bash and emacs and latex and so on run under > Android. ?Do these and the other gazillion programs that we use every > day run under Chrome? I think you're saying "but I don't want a web browser, I want a traditional computer." That's fine -- use a traditional computer. Things like Crunchpad, Kindle, and Chrome OS are different. They're not for running traditional desktop software. That said, if you build and install Chrome OS yourself, you could of course get it to run anything you like. It will be open source. - Dan From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Thu Jul 9 11:09:11 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:09:11 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] A couple of links from an unlikely source... Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E89AF@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> [might be worth putting into tonight's news-of-the-net or whatever you want to call it...] Building a blazingly fast reliable drive system http://www.studiodaily.com/main/technology/newgear/11063.html (essentially SAS for home machines...) [and probably windows mostly/only so far as the hardware is concerned :( ] ===== An ?8,000 projector ushers in future for independent cinema http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jul/08/digital-cinema (note in particular the discussion towards the end where instead of traditional distribution channels, they released their work under a "creative commons" license and let people self-distribute) ===== And for something completely different: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjFlbNIo4QU (I know, "what will they think of next to connect to USB?" After all, they've already made the "beanz-a-wave" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG5FtZucb5s) From courier at braydon.com Thu Jul 9 11:21:30 2009 From: courier at braydon.com (Braydon Fuller) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:21:30 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] SGVLUG meeting Thur 7-9pm Topic: Fedora In-Reply-To: <962255.31661.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <962255.31661.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A56352A.5080408@braydon.com> I'm gonna make a bike ride up to Pasadena from DTLA if anyone wants to join me, meet at 5:45pm at the Chinatown Metro Goldline Station. Braydon matti wrote: > Hi! > > *** Meeting Thur 7/9 7-9pm *** > > PLEASE HELP spread the word! iirc, craigslist, email,... > > Printout the nice flyer Braydon made (thanks!) and pass > it to a friend or 2.. > > http://braydon.com/blog/2009/7/3/fedora-11-demonstration-thursday-july-9th-caltech > > > > We have a guest speaker coming down from Santa Cruz to > present for us this July! > > *** SO PLEASE HELP SPREAD THE WORD! *** > > please post the announcement as appropriate > and please invite your friends to join us. > > > I would like to see a full room! > > ALSO, if there are any particular questions you have > about Fedora which you would like asked you > can drop me a note or Larry a note so that > he can be a bit more prepared ;) > > > SGVLUG July 9th 7-9pm, afterwards join us at BC to > continue the conversation with food and drinks > ( don't worry we get separate checks ;) > > When: July 9th, 2009 > Time: 7-9pm+ ( and at BC afterwards ) > Location: 107 Downs at Caltech Campus in Pasadena > more info: http://www.sgvlug.org/ > > Topic summary: Fedora 11, code named Leonidas, is the latest offering from Fedora. With over 60 improvements and new features, Fedora 11 will be demonstrated at the meeting. > > About me: Larry Cafiero is the Regional Ambassador for the U.S. West Coast for the Fedora Project. He is also a senior partner at Redwood Digital Research in Felton, California (Santa Cruz County), which is a small business/SOHO computer maintenance and networking firm utilizing FOSS programs. He also blogs as "Larry the Free Software Guy" at http://larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordpress.com > > > See you at the meeting! > thanks and have a great holiday weekend! > matti > > > > From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Thu Jul 9 11:59:40 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:59:40 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] (I knew I shouldn't have asked) [OT] what ELSE was thought of... Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E89C1@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Earlier, I surmised that just about everything imaginable has been made "USB" powered - sure enough, I found a list... http://dvice.com/archives/2009/04/50-examples-tha.php -50- devices listed ! [though some are essentially repeats, such as each distinct version of a USB "hub"] From haroldtotten at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 14:38:42 2009 From: haroldtotten at gmail.com (Harold Totten) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 14:38:42 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] laptop Message-ID: <83cc72030907091438o12625582v15f4d0c75bddf2f5@mail.gmail.com> Last month I passed on a laptop to Erik (I think it was). Erik: Are you on this list? I may have other stuff for you. HT -- Harold Totten http://www.HaroldTotten.com Tujunga, California ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Education is what survives when what has been learned has been forgotten. B. F. Skinner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20090709/42fa6388/attachment.html From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 15:32:21 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 15:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] Remember Meeting TONITE! See you there! 7-9pm. Message-ID: <708793.98782.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> reminder: ========= Hi! *** Meeting Thur 7/9 7-9pm *** PLEASE HELP spread the word! iirc, craigslist, email,... Printout the nice flyer Braydon made (thanks!) and pass it to a friend or 2.. http://braydon.com/blog/2009/7/3/fedora-11-demonstration-thursday-july-9th-caltech We have a guest speaker coming down from Santa Cruz to present for us this July! *** SO PLEASE HELP SPREAD THE WORD! *** please post the announcement as appropriate and please invite your friends to join us. I would like to see a full room! ALSO, if there are any particular questions you have about Fedora which you would like asked you can drop me a note or Larry a note so that he can be a bit more prepared ;) SGVLUG July 9th 7-9pm, afterwards join us at BC to continue the conversation with food and drinks ( don't worry we get separate checks ;) When: July 9th, 2009 Time: 7-9pm+ ( and at BC afterwards ) Location: 107 Downs at Caltech Campus in Pasadena more info: http://www.sgvlug.org/ Topic summary: Fedora 11, code named Leonidas, is the latest offering from Fedora. With over 60 improvements and new features, Fedora 11 will be demonstrated at the meeting. About me: Larry Cafiero is the Regional Ambassador for the U.S. West Coast for the Fedora Project. He is also a senior partner at Redwood Digital Research in Felton, California (Santa Cruz County), which is a small business/SOHO computer maintenance and networking firm utilizing FOSS programs. He also blogs as "Larry the Free Software Guy" at http://larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordpress.com See you at the meeting! thanks and have a great holiday weekend! matti From baldguru at mac.com Thu Jul 9 16:03:47 2009 From: baldguru at mac.com (Charles Blanchard) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:03:47 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] A couple of links from an unlikely source... In-Reply-To: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E89AF@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6266E7E89AF@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <29AD5625-4067-4032-A758-E5E0CFF9F5A9@mac.com> On Jul 9, 2009, at 11:09 AM, Emerson, Tom (*IC) wrote: > > An ?8,000 projector ushers in future for independent cinema > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jul/08/digital-cinema > > (note in particular the discussion towards the end where instead of > traditional distribution channels, they released their work under a > "creative commons" license and let people self-distribute) Very interesting - thanks Tom! -- cheers, Charlie Blanchard Quantum-Touch? Certified Practitioner & Instructor www.baldguru.com (626) 215-1301 Twitter ID: baldguru Facebook.com/baldguru From JimW at dynashoe.com Thu Jul 9 17:04:32 2009 From: JimW at dynashoe.com (DYN: Jim Workman) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:04:32 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] External Drive on RHEL 4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F61881@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Pardon my ignorance, I'm looking into adding a USB hard-drive dock (replaceable SATA hard drives) for archiving old data. Has anyone tried this? Would there be problems mounting if there is no drive in the dock when the system boots? Wouldn't files be readable from any *nix and even Windows (ala Samba)? Jim Workman From rae.yip at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 17:34:50 2009 From: rae.yip at gmail.com (Rae Yip) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:34:50 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] External Drive on RHEL 4 In-Reply-To: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F61881@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> References: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F61881@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Message-ID: <2e64dd790907091734n1d28799ds598a03cc02b7a4ea@mail.gmail.com> Generally automounter takes care of removeable media (USB or otherwise). So long as you don't force a mount in your /etc/fstab, it should be fine to boot without the drive attached or on. Samba might need a little scripting to re-probe and refresh its available volumes when you plug in the drive, though. I'm not as familiar with mucking that aspect. -Rae. On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 5:04 PM, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: > Pardon my ignorance, > > I'm looking into adding a USB hard-drive dock (replaceable SATA hard > drives) for archiving old data. ?Has anyone tried this? > > Would there be problems mounting if there is no drive in the dock when > the system boots? > > Wouldn't files be readable from any *nix and even Windows (ala Samba)? > > Jim Workman > > From shiningkenmonster at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 00:57:56 2009 From: shiningkenmonster at gmail.com (Kenny Leao) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:57:56 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] did anyone take notes of all those software at the meeting? and linux does have big videogames section. Message-ID: <1613d8df0907100057w64239571n55435dfe48ca744b@mail.gmail.com> You know, you guys were collaborating together on the list of software on the board. did anyone take notes of the whole list? i didnt bring my netbook with me. I would like to see the whole list of softwares. by the way, someone at the meeting said there aren't a lot of linux games for linux. I thought that was totally false. ID Software ports all there games on linux machines now. Such as DOOM, Quake 3 Arena, DOOM 3. You can even run on Wine, or use PlayonLinux to run videogames such as Starcraft, Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft. here is even a website that list some videogames for linux. linux games does exist. http://www.penguspy.com/ there are even on GUI where you add all the programs. there is a game section too! i personally like hedgewars (a game like worms armageddon) From shiningkenmonster at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 01:00:44 2009 From: shiningkenmonster at gmail.com (Kenny Leao) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 01:00:44 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] did anyone take notes of all those software at the meeting? and linux does have a big videogames selection Message-ID: <1613d8df0907100100i1bc5c10doceaf3b41955729c5@mail.gmail.com> egh, sorry for the grammar errors. From JimW at dynashoe.com Fri Jul 10 13:10:49 2009 From: JimW at dynashoe.com (DYN: Jim Workman) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:10:49 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] did anyone take notes of all those software at themeeting? and linux does have big videogames section. In-Reply-To: <1613d8df0907100057w64239571n55435dfe48ca744b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F61B1A@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> This is a good starting point. It compares many of the apps discussed last night. http://www.mail-archive.com/foss-nepal at googlegroups.com/msg01576.html Jim Workman -----Original Message----- From: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net [mailto:sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net] On Behalf Of Kenny Leao Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 12:58 AM To: sgvlug at sgvlug.net Subject: [SGVLUG] did anyone take notes of all those software at themeeting? and linux does have big videogames section. You know, you guys were collaborating together on the list of software on the board. did anyone take notes of the whole list? i didnt bring my netbook with me. I would like to see the whole list of softwares. by the way, someone at the meeting said there aren't a lot of linux games for linux. I thought that was totally false. ID Software ports all there games on linux machines now. Such as DOOM, Quake 3 Arena, DOOM 3. You can even run on Wine, or use PlayonLinux to run videogames such as Starcraft, Warcraft 3, World of Warcraft. here is even a website that list some videogames for linux. linux games does exist. http://www.penguspy.com/ there are even on GUI where you add all the programs. there is a game section too! i personally like hedgewars (a game like worms armageddon) From shiningkenmonster at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 01:56:43 2009 From: shiningkenmonster at gmail.com (Kenny Leao) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:56:43 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Linux netbook for $150 Message-ID: <1613d8df0907110156t5a483548s74c7c9733e0b8086@mail.gmail.com> you can get the exact same model but refurbished for 129.95! http://news.cnet.com/8301-13845_3-10283838-58.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20090711/7bedc4e3/attachment.html From jana.lingo at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 14:23:54 2009 From: jana.lingo at gmail.com (Jana Lingo) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:23:54 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Linux netbook for $150 In-Reply-To: <1613d8df0907110156t5a483548s74c7c9733e0b8086@mail.gmail.com> References: <1613d8df0907110156t5a483548s74c7c9733e0b8086@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: it's actually different model It has less strorage (4 GB vs 8GB) but a larger screen(8 vs 7) Mine came in on wednesday< I had meant to stop by the meeting, but remembered after I got on the train. worth $150 - you betcha! yet to get on the net with it, or try and install anything (Actually i've yet to get to a command prompt. I would be willing to d a little (pun not intended) at a future, if there's interest Ps,, it was still $150 last time I checked On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:56 AM, Kenny Leao wrote: > you can get the exact same model but refurbished for 129.95! > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13845_3-10283838-58.html > From jimw at about-town.com Sun Jul 12 11:16:30 2009 From: jimw at about-town.com (jimw at about-town.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:16:30 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Wireless keyboard request from July meeting In-Reply-To: <1613d8df0907110156t5a483548s74c7c9733e0b8086@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: At the Thursday meeting, someone asked to try a wireless keyboard. Please email me exchange phone numbers. I plan to go to the Pasadena Library this afternoon. jimlampsig at gmail dot com jimw at about-town dot com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20090712/20f78888/attachment.html From JimW at dynashoe.com Mon Jul 13 13:54:19 2009 From: JimW at dynashoe.com (DYN: Jim Workman) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:54:19 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Suggestions for business application server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F61EFB@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> We are planning to replace our current Dell RHEL 4 server (keeping the old server as a nightly-rsynced hot backup). I'm looking for suggestions on some questions from those who have recent configuration experience. Current system has 8 SCSI 73GB 15k drives in RAID5. Has anyone replaced SCSI with SATA in high-reliability environment. (Non-SQL files with lots of record-based I/O.) I have read that RAID5 is less preferable to RAID10 or other configurations due to its slowness. Also read that it is better to not keep the OS on the main RAID array. Are there significant advantages to go to RHEL 5, and can the backup system stay RHEL 4? We are currently making nightly full backups onto DLT VS1 tapes. (2 week rotation and archiving the Month-End tape.) Because tape drive & tapes are relatively expensive, I am investigating a cron-driven backup to USB hard-drives as a replacement. Anyone doing this? We have an option to make incremental backups to an enterprise-level hard-drive archive system, but I have concerns about restoring individual files from such a system. Has anyone dealt with data recovery from EMCsquared? Experience-based comments to any of the issues above are welcome. Jim Workman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20090713/7965eec3/attachment.html From joel.witherspoon at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 16:40:22 2009 From: joel.witherspoon at gmail.com (Joel Witherspoon) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:40:22 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Suggestions for business application server In-Reply-To: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F61EFB@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> References: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F61EFB@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Message-ID: Jim, I can't comment with statistics, but I've had a good run with SATA in our MSSQL environment. We replaced our SCSI servers with SATA servers and the reliability is great. In the last year, I've only purchased servers with RAID 10. We've eliminated the IO issues that we had with RAID 5. Again it's RAID 10 with SATA; moderate virtualization. We have OS only servers that run RAID 5. We use a SAN for volumes. The SAN is RAID 10. When data has not been modified over 9 months we move it to a NAS box for archival (NAS-LITE). It's not the best way, as there is not governance for data retrieval, but the NAS box is a 4TB RAID 10 HP ML 370 that I've hulked up just for storage. If someone is looking for a file, we can usually find it with no problem. Our desire is to purchase a second SAN for data progression; at least there we'll have logic for retrieval. On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:54 PM, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: > We are planning to replace our current Dell RHEL 4 server (keeping the > old server as a nightly-rsynced hot backup). > > > > I?m looking for suggestions on some questions from those who have recent > configuration experience. > > > > Current system has 8 SCSI 73GB 15k drives in RAID5. > > > > Has anyone replaced SCSI with SATA in high-reliability environment. > (Non-SQL files with lots of record-based I/O.) > > > > I have read that RAID5 is less preferable to RAID10 or other configurations > due to its slowness. > > > > Also read that it is better to not keep the OS on the main RAID array. > > > > Are there significant advantages to go to RHEL 5, and can the backup system > stay RHEL 4? > > > > We are currently making nightly full backups onto DLT VS1 tapes. (2 week > rotation and archiving the Month-End tape.) > > Because tape drive & tapes are relatively expensive, I am investigating a > cron-driven backup to USB hard-drives as a replacement. > > Anyone doing this? > > > > We have an option to make incremental backups to an enterprise-level > hard-drive archive system, but I have concerns about restoring individual > files from such a system. Has anyone dealt with data recovery from > EMCsquared? > > > > Experience-based comments to any of the issues above are welcome. > > > > > > Jim Workman > -- Joel Witherspoon LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jcwitherspoon Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/joel.witherspoon Skype: joel.witherspoon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20090713/abfb7ca0/attachment.html From JimW at dynashoe.com Mon Jul 13 17:47:45 2009 From: JimW at dynashoe.com (DYN: Jim Workman) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:47:45 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Suggestions for business application server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F6207A@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Thanks Joel, That's just what I was looking for! Jim ________________________________ From: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net [mailto:sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net] On Behalf Of Joel Witherspoon Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:40 PM To: SGVLUG Discussion List. Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] Suggestions for business application server Jim, I can't comment with statistics, but I've had a good run with SATA in our MSSQL environment. We replaced our SCSI servers with SATA servers and the reliability is great. In the last year, I've only purchased servers with RAID 10. We've eliminated the IO issues that we had with RAID 5. Again it's RAID 10 with SATA; moderate virtualization. We have OS only servers that run RAID 5. We use a SAN for volumes. The SAN is RAID 10. When data has not been modified over 9 months we move it to a NAS box for archival (NAS-LITE). It's not the best way, as there is not governance for data retrieval, but the NAS box is a 4TB RAID 10 HP ML 370 that I've hulked up just for storage. If someone is looking for a file, we can usually find it with no problem. Our desire is to purchase a second SAN for data progression; at least there we'll have logic for retrieval. On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:54 PM, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: We are planning to replace our current Dell RHEL 4 server (keeping the old server as a nightly-rsynced hot backup). I'm looking for suggestions on some questions from those who have recent configuration experience. Current system has 8 SCSI 73GB 15k drives in RAID5. Has anyone replaced SCSI with SATA in high-reliability environment. (Non-SQL files with lots of record-based I/O.) I have read that RAID5 is less preferable to RAID10 or other configurations due to its slowness. Also read that it is better to not keep the OS on the main RAID array. Are there significant advantages to go to RHEL 5, and can the backup system stay RHEL 4? We are currently making nightly full backups onto DLT VS1 tapes. (2 week rotation and archiving the Month-End tape.) Because tape drive & tapes are relatively expensive, I am investigating a cron-driven backup to USB hard-drives as a replacement. Anyone doing this? We have an option to make incremental backups to an enterprise-level hard-drive archive system, but I have concerns about restoring individual files from such a system. Has anyone dealt with data recovery from EMCsquared? Experience-based comments to any of the issues above are welcome. Jim Workman -- Joel Witherspoon LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jcwitherspoon Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/joel.witherspoon Skype: joel.witherspoon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20090713/9ae9fdf3/attachment-0001.html From rae.yip at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 17:50:53 2009 From: rae.yip at gmail.com (Rae Yip) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:50:53 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Suggestions for business application server In-Reply-To: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F61EFB@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> References: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F61EFB@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Message-ID: <2e64dd790907131750w3dd393bdh992b247f4fc58073@mail.gmail.com> RAID5 can plenty fast if you've got a decent (battery-backed) RAM cache in your RAID controller. This can work for anything up to the most data-intensive applications - for those you should stick with RAID10. Of course, if your drives are >1TB in size, you might consider RAID6 for stability reasons mentioned previously on this list. So long as you've kept your data filesystems separate from the OS root, there's no reason why you can't rsync from RHEL5 to RHEL4. It's a little more complicated if it's not cleanly separated. When you say backups to USB hard-drives, I take that to mean regular hard drives in an external USB case (as opposed to USB flash). I've done that for desktops; generally anything worth putting on a server, I'd copy to something more robust than a single external drive. A long time ago, the storage/backup solution used at a company I worked for involved EMC intra-array sync between primary and backup LUNS, then spooling to tape off the backup LUNs. I'm pretty sure you're referring to a different EMC solution, though. Perhaps Celerra? In any case, a cheap NAS box or two is an excellent way to go if you've got a reasonably fast network. There are varying levels of price and reliability, of course. -Rae. On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:54 PM, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: > We are planning to replace our current Dell RHEL 4 server (keeping the old > server as a nightly-rsynced hot backup). > > > > I?m looking for suggestions on some questions from those who have recent > configuration experience. > > > > Current system has 8 SCSI 73GB 15k drives in RAID5. > > > > Has anyone replaced SCSI with SATA in high-reliability environment. > (Non-SQL files with lots of record-based I/O.) > > > > I have read that RAID5 is less preferable to RAID10 or other configurations > due to its slowness. > > > > Also read that it is better to not keep the OS on the main RAID array. > > > > Are there significant advantages to go to RHEL 5, and can the backup system > stay RHEL 4? > > > > We are currently making nightly full backups onto DLT VS1 tapes.? (2 week > rotation and archiving the Month-End tape.) > > Because tape drive & tapes are relatively expensive, I am investigating a > cron-driven backup to USB hard-drives as a replacement. > > Anyone doing this? > > > > We have an option to make incremental backups to an enterprise-level > hard-drive archive system, but I have concerns about restoring individual > files from such a system.? Has anyone dealt with data recovery from > EMCsquared? > > > > Experience-based comments to any of the issues above are welcome. > > > > > > Jim Workman From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 18:49:07 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] Suggestions for business application server Message-ID: <993794.98629.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, > Has anyone > replaced SCSI with SATA in > high-reliability environment.? (Non-SQL files with > lots of record-based > I/O.) better quality SATA drives can do well enough for many applications now. ( note, the consumer rated SATA desktop drives are not as reliable as the "enterprise" or server rated drives - or so I was told at a storage conference I went to. ) SCSI/SAS are pricey still imho and I would really want to see them only on systems which really needed the performance. I really wished their price points would be closer to SATA. > I have read > that RAID5 is less preferable > to RAID10 or other configurations due to its > slowness. RAID 10 is in general supposed to be the fastest solution, however RAID 5 or RAID 6 can be good enough for many applications. > Also read > that it is better to not keep > the OS on the main RAID array. in general I prefer to have the system OS on a RAID 1 pair, and data on a separate RAID 5/6/10 set. > Are there > significant advantages to go to > RHEL 5, and can the backup system stay RHEL > 4? are we talking about backup of the data/ or a backup server to run the applications if the first server dies. if just a backup of the data, then it is fine, although I prefer to keep all the OSes to the same level whenever possible to reduce complexity of admin. ( and the more current stable version, typically the less security hole/bug issues.. ) if it is a failover server to run the applications, it should be the same version... this is where the virtual machines work well... running applications. > We are > currently making nightly full > backups onto DLT VS1 tapes.? (2 week rotation and > archiving the Month-End > tape.) > > Because > tape drive & tapes are > relatively expensive, I am investigating a cron-driven > backup to USB > hard-drives as a replacement. if you are going to use external USB drives, better keep at least 2 copies... hard drives just die too frequently, even if not spinning. I trust dropping a tape on the floor more than a hard drive... tapes in general work better ( tho I have seen some of the critical plastic parts on a tape drive break on a fall... argh a real PITA! ) best matti From jimw at about-town.com Mon Jul 13 22:53:05 2009 From: jimw at about-town.com (jimw at about-town.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:53:05 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Suggestions for business application server In-Reply-To: <993794.98629.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Matti, I like your suggestions. Jim -----Original Message----- From: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net [mailto:sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net]On Behalf Of matti Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 6:49 PM To: SGVLUG Discussion List. Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] Suggestions for business application server Hi, > Has anyone > replaced SCSI with SATA in > high-reliability environment.? (Non-SQL files with > lots of record-based > I/O.) better quality SATA drives can do well enough for many applications now. ( note, the consumer rated SATA desktop drives are not as reliable as the "enterprise" or server rated drives - or so I was told at a storage conference I went to. ) SCSI/SAS are pricey still imho and I would really want to see them only on systems which really needed the performance. I really wished their price points would be closer to SATA. > I have read > that RAID5 is less preferable > to RAID10 or other configurations due to its > slowness. RAID 10 is in general supposed to be the fastest solution, however RAID 5 or RAID 6 can be good enough for many applications. > Also read > that it is better to not keep > the OS on the main RAID array. in general I prefer to have the system OS on a RAID 1 pair, and data on a separate RAID 5/6/10 set. > Are there > significant advantages to go to > RHEL 5, and can the backup system stay RHEL > 4? are we talking about backup of the data/ or a backup server to run the applications if the first server dies. if just a backup of the data, then it is fine, although I prefer to keep all the OSes to the same level whenever possible to reduce complexity of admin. ( and the more current stable version, typically the less security hole/bug issues.. ) if it is a failover server to run the applications, it should be the same version... this is where the virtual machines work well... running applications. > We are > currently making nightly full > backups onto DLT VS1 tapes.? (2 week rotation and > archiving the Month-End > tape.) > > Because > tape drive & tapes are > relatively expensive, I am investigating a cron-driven > backup to USB > hard-drives as a replacement. if you are going to use external USB drives, better keep at least 2 copies... hard drives just die too frequently, even if not spinning. I trust dropping a tape on the floor more than a hard drive... tapes in general work better ( tho I have seen some of the critical plastic parts on a tape drive break on a fall... argh a real PITA! ) best matti From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 23:10:14 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] fyi - AI conf here in pasadena Message-ID: <333797.10351.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> fyi - AI conf here in pasadena I just noticed this.. I don't know the price ( though I am certain it's more than SCALE.. ) some of the topics looked very interesting, thought worth looking at for some of the more curious ones at SGVLUG ;) http://ijcai-09.org/technical_program.html best matti From skevin521 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 14 15:36:40 2009 From: skevin521 at yahoo.com (skevin521 at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:36:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] OpenVPN not seeing anything Message-ID: <679728.2699.qm@web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> First off, I want to thank everyone about the GMail comments.? GMail was indeed greylisting me, and it is still taking about 10 hours for mail to get through.? Oh well... I'm now facing down a new breed of problem - OpenVPN.? I've gotten it set up and installed on a CentOS box on a public IP, but when I connect (I'm using Tunnel Blick for the Mac as my client) I suddenly lose all connectivity to the world around me.? It's not just hostnames not resolving... I can't even hit any numerical IPs, except my local gateway. Oddly enough, any SSH sessions I had open just prior to connecting still remain open.? Here's my server.conf: port 1194 proto tcp dev tun ca keys/ca.crt cert keys/virdev01.crt key keys/virdev01.key dh keys/dh1024.pem server 172.16.229.0 255.255.255.0 client-config-dir ccd ######### ######### Put your Public DNS Servers here ######### push "dhcp-option DNS 216.187.125.130" push "dhcp-option DNS 216.187.125.131" ifconfig-pool-persist ipp.txt push "redirect-gateway def1" keepalive 10 120 comp-lzo persist-key persist-tun status server-tcp.log verb 3 Any help would be totally totally appreciated. Solomon From JimW at dynashoe.com Tue Jul 14 16:35:32 2009 From: JimW at dynashoe.com (DYN: Jim Workman) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 16:35:32 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Internet Telefony Expo (including Asterisk) Sept 1-3 Message-ID: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C02F623F7@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Subject: Download Brochure to Absorb Complete ITEXPO Program MEMO From Michael Genaro, TMC's Vice President of Marketing ---------------------------------------------------------------- WHAT: 20th ITEXPO West 2009 WHEN: September 1-3, 2009 WHERE: Los Angeles Convention Center, Los Angeles, California WEB: http://www.itexpo.com ITEXPO West 2009: The World's Communications Conference Dear Colleague, I am literally overwhelmed by the amazing program the TMC team has assembled for ITEXPO West in Los Angeles. My best recommendation to you is to download and view your own copy of the conference brochure right now to absorb all of the unrivaled learning and networking opportunities at the event for you. You can download your personal copy of the event brochure using this link: http://images.tmcnet.com/expo/west-09/art/itw09-brochure.pdf ----------------------------- Early Bird Savings in Effect ----------------------------- Now is a great time to make your plans to attend this year's event. Early bird rates for conference passes remain in effect, saving you as much as $1,000 off a team plan, and $300 off an individual conference pass. Use this link to register now: http://www.tmcnet.com/voip/conference/west-2009/overview/w09-registratio n.aspx ---------------------------------------------------------- TMC University Courses Offered - Scholarships Available ---------------------------------------------------------- Two of TMC's most popular TMC University Certification Courses - Microsoft OCS and Network Security - will once again be offered at ITEXPO West 2009. TMC is offering full and partial scholarships to attend TMC University courses. The amount of the scholarships is based on the urgency of your current projects and your need to attend the educational courses being held. If you are interested in applying for a scholarship, which range in value from $195 - $1,895, please use this link to complete the form online: http://www.tmcnet.com/voip/conference/survey-tmc-u.aspx ---------------------------------------------------------- Educational Sessions/Workshops Cover Every Hot Topic ---------------------------------------------------------- Without a doubt, this is the richest content offering in the 10-year, 20-show history of this conference. In addition to the TMC University courses, you can attend sessions in these in-depth conference tracks: - TMC University: Microsoft OCS - TMC University: Network Security - Enterprise Opportunities in Unified Communications and Collaboration Presented in conjunction with Intellicom Analytics - Unified Communications - Service Provider Solutions - Enterprise Solutions - Regulation - Open Source - Trends in IP Communications - Contact Center Solutions - WiNOG at ITEXPO: Fixed Broadband Solutions - Wireless Broadband Training: LTE - Wireless Broadband Training: IP backhaul - Asterisk Training: Asterisk 1-2-3 - Asterisk Training: Introduction to Switchvox In addition, TMC and Crossfire Media have once again teamed up to collocate 4GWE Conference at ITEXPO West in Los Angeles. Conference tracks at 4GWE include: - Mobile Broadband Applications - WiMAX Adoption: Standards & Devices - Alternative 4G Delivery Strategies - LTE - Wireless Backhaul - Advocacy Issues You can download a copy of the 4GWE Conference brochure here: http://4g-wirelessevolution.tmcnet.com/conference/west-09/w-09-brochure- form.aspx ---------------------------------------------------------- Keynote Lineup Announced ---------------------------------------------------------- All ITEXPO attendees are invited to the keynote sessions featuring ShoreTel, Interactive Intelligence, Alvarion, and Clearwire. Here is the complete schedule to date: Tuesday, September 1: --------------------- 4:30pm: John W. Combs, CEO, ShoreTel Wednesday, September 2: ----------------------- 12:15pm: Dr. Mohammad Shakouri, Corporate Vice President, Alvarion Ltd. 3:00pm: Ali Tabassi, Senior VP, Global Ecosystem and Standards, Clearwire 3:30pm: Dr. Don Brown, Co-founder, CEO, Chairman, Interactive Intelligence ---------------------------------------------------------- Free Workshops Offered at ITEXPO West 2009 ---------------------------------------------------------- In addition to the nearly 100 breakout sessions in the conference program, there will be several workshops offered free to all ITEXPO attendees. These workshops include: - Ingate's SIP Trunking Workshop - Reseller Solutions Day Workshop - Sipera's UC Security Training I encourage you to review the complete program on the Web site now. You can also register quickly and easily online using this link: http://www.tmcnet.com/voip/conference/west-2009/overview/w09-registratio n.aspx Remember, early bird rates expire on Friday, July 17, so register today. Regards, Michael Genaro VP, Marketing TMC/INTERNET TELEPHONY While at ITEXPO, please visit our sponsors on the exhibit floor: Diamond Sponsors: Aculab Platinum Sponsors: AudioCodes, 8x8, Inc, ShoreTel, VoltDelta, Interactive Intelligence, IP Pay, ABP Tech, Sansay, Applianx Gold Sponsors: NetSapiens, Net|Quintum, Telco Bridges, Voxbone, Touchstone Technologies, IntelePeer, FaxBack NOTICE: This email was distributed by: Technology Marketing Corporation, 1 Technology Plaza, Norwalk, CT 06854 As a valued reader or attendee of TMC's publications and events, you will occasionally receive carefully-screened offers and free product information via email. If you no longer wish to receive this type of email,please cick here http://www.tmcnet.com/enews/subs.aspx?eml=jimw at dynashoe.com to adjust your preferences. From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 14 20:50:58 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] OpenVPN not seeing anything Message-ID: <328540.58919.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Tue, 7/14/09, skevin521 at yahoo.com wrote: > From: skevin521 at yahoo.com > Subject: [SGVLUG] OpenVPN not seeing anything > To: "Orange County Linux Users Group" > > First off, I want to thank everyone about the GMail > comments.? GMail was indeed greylisting me, and it is still > taking about 10 hours for mail to get through.? Oh well... Hi Solomon, Curious, How did you confirm this? thanks! matti From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Wed Jul 15 10:20:09 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:20:09 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Mainframe(-ish) advert... Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D3C7@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> I got this from my HP list, thought I'd send it as a bit of an FYI on the state of mini/mainframe computers and pricing... Jesse Dougherty wrote: > The following boxes are for sale: > > HP e3000 N4000-100-330 Server > 16GB Memory > 1 x 9GB MPE Boot drive > 1 x 73GB Storage drive > MPE/iX pre loaded > $4,000.00 + $150.00 shipping (USA) > > HP e3000 N4000-100-500 Server > 16GB Memory > 1 x 9GB MPE Boot drive > 1 x 73GB Storage drive > MPE/iX pre loaded > $5,000.00 + $150.00 shipping (USA) > > any questions or if interested, feel free to email me: > > Thanks > Jesse Dougherty > Cypress Technology, Inc > Re-Sellers of HP 3000/9000 products > 8565A Somerset Drive > Largo, FL 33773 > 727-557-0911 / fax 727-683-1853 > jesse at cypress-tech.com > www.cypress-tech.com The "N4000" series are PA-Risc processors (it *migth* be possible to run Linux on them, but there are reasons why you wouldn't want to - namely, the corresponding HP-9000 *Unix* box doesn't have the clock speed "crippled"...) I believe the "-100" indicates 1 processor, and the -330/-500 is the clock speed in megahertz (yes, MEGA, not GIGA) [but as "RISC" processors, that is less of an issue...] The "original price" of these machines would be at least one, possibly two "orders of magnatude" higher (i.e., 40,000 to 400,000) From skevin521 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 15 11:02:28 2009 From: skevin521 at yahoo.com (Solomon K. Chang) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] OpenVPN not seeing anything Message-ID: <439445.41866.qm@web50907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Well, I installed OpenVPN with all its defaults on a CentOS server, and then after connecting, I kept a tcpdump session open on both the newly created tun0 interface as well as some of the physical interfaces. Packets bound for elsewhere in the network just weren't getting routed properly. --- On Tue, 7/14/09, matti wrote: > Hi Solomon, > > Curious, How did you confirm this? > > thanks! > matti > > > > > > From charles at thewybles.com Wed Jul 15 11:21:09 2009 From: charles at thewybles.com (Charles Wyble) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:21:09 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OpenVPN not seeing anything In-Reply-To: <439445.41866.qm@web50907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <439445.41866.qm@web50907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A5E1E15.9000702@thewybles.com> I think he means how did you confirm the gray listing. Solomon K. Chang wrote: > Well, I installed OpenVPN with all its defaults on a CentOS server, and then after connecting, I kept a tcpdump session open on both the newly created tun0 interface as well as some of the physical interfaces. Packets bound for elsewhere in the network just weren't getting routed properly. > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, matti wrote: > >> Hi Solomon, >> >> Curious, How did you confirm this? >> >> thanks! >> matti >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > From skevin521 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 15 12:11:15 2009 From: skevin521 at yahoo.com (skevin521 at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] Graylisting (was: OpenVPN not seeing anything) Message-ID: <771811.28879.qm@web50908.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Oops, Matti should have changed the Subject accordingly (See above). All my server mail to gmail is taking between 10 to 15 hours to get through, with /var/log/maillog telling me Status Deferred.? Postfix, being what it is, keeps trying and trying.? If I remove it from the spool, I never see it in my GMail inbox, despite the fact that it was delievered "Status Deferred". If that's not Grey Listing, then I don't know what is. Now if only I can get my poor VPN to work before I get fired. Solomon (who started his current job as a DBA, but got "promoted" to SysAdmin, and is suddenly expected to know how to do all those things SysAdmins do) --- On Wed, 7/15/09, Charles Wyble wrote: > From: Charles Wyble > Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] OpenVPN not seeing anything > To: "SGVLUG Discussion List." > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 11:21 AM > I think he means how did you confirm > the gray listing. > > > > Solomon K. Chang wrote: > > Well, I installed OpenVPN with all its defaults on a > CentOS server, and then after connecting, I kept a tcpdump > session open on both the newly created tun0 interface as > well as some of the physical interfaces.? Packets bound > for elsewhere in the network just weren't getting routed > properly. > > > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, matti > wrote: > > > >> Hi Solomon, > >> > >> Curious, How did you confirm this? > >> > >> thanks! > >> matti > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >? ? ??? > > > From ssawkins at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 14:22:32 2009 From: ssawkins at gmail.com (Steve Sawkins) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:22:32 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OpenVPN not seeing anything Message-ID: I've never used OpenVPN, but if you have a mandatory tunnel going, ALL of your traffic will be going through it, and if you need to have new DNS Servers as a result of being on a new network, your tunnel server would potentially need to serve them up. At least, that's how I remember it. A split tunnel would allow you to have traffic both inside and outside the tunnel. That works decently if you need general internet access but still need to go through the tunnel for some specific service. If NOTHING is going through the tunnel, I'd check the firewall/filtering settings on the tunnel server or your local firewall settings on your Mac. The fact that the SSH sessions are going through tells me that they've been given special dispansation by something in the filter chain. Have you tried to initiate an SSH session through the tunnel? Maybe you're set up to only allow outgoing port 22 on certain interfaces... If you turn up the logging on everyone involved(client and server) it might be obvious what's going on. You might see like a "packet dropped due to failing this criteria" type-of message. -Steve S. Message: 1 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:36:40 -0700 (PDT) From: skevin521 at yahoo.com Subject: [SGVLUG] OpenVPN not seeing anything To: Orange County Linux Users Group Cc: sfvlug at sfvlug.org, sgvlug at sgvlug.net Message-ID: <679728.2699.qm at web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 First off, I want to thank everyone about the GMail comments.? GMail was indeed greylisting me, and it is still taking about 10 hours for mail to get through.? Oh well... I'm now facing down a new breed of problem - OpenVPN.? I've gotten it set up and installed on a CentOS box on a public IP, but when I connect (I'm using Tunnel Blick for the Mac as my client) I suddenly lose all connectivity to the world around me.? It's not just hostnames not resolving... I can't even hit any numerical IPs, except my local gateway. Oddly enough, any SSH sessions I had open just prior to connecting still remain open.? Here's my server.conf: port 1194 proto tcp dev tun ca keys/ca.crt cert keys/virdev01.crt key keys/virdev01.key dh keys/dh1024.pem server 172.16.229.0 255.255.255.0 client-config-dir ccd ######### ######### Put your Public DNS Servers here ######### push "dhcp-option DNS 216.187.125.130" push "dhcp-option DNS 216.187.125.131" ifconfig-pool-persist ipp.txt push "redirect-gateway def1" keepalive 10 120 comp-lzo persist-key persist-tun status server-tcp.log verb 3 Any help would be totally totally appreciated. Solomon From charles at thewybles.com Wed Jul 15 14:28:15 2009 From: charles at thewybles.com (Charles Wyble) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:28:15 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OpenVPN not seeing anything In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A5E49EF.6020106@thewybles.com> Remove > push "redirect-gateway def1" Steve Sawkins wrote: > I've never used OpenVPN, but if you have a mandatory tunnel going, ALL > of your traffic will be going through it, and if you need to have new > DNS Servers as a result of being on a new network, your tunnel server > would potentially need to serve them up. > > At least, that's how I remember it. > > A split tunnel would allow you to have traffic both inside and outside > the tunnel. That works decently if you need general internet access > but still need to go through the tunnel for some specific service. > > If NOTHING is going through the tunnel, I'd check the > firewall/filtering settings on the tunnel server or your local > firewall settings on your Mac. The fact that the SSH sessions are > going through tells me that they've been given special dispansation by > something in the filter chain. > > Have you tried to initiate an SSH session through the tunnel? Maybe > you're set up to only allow outgoing port 22 on certain interfaces... > > If you turn up the logging on everyone involved(client and server) it > might be obvious what's going on. You might see like a "packet dropped > due to failing this criteria" type-of message. > > -Steve S. > > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:36:40 -0700 (PDT) > From: skevin521 at yahoo.com > Subject: [SGVLUG] OpenVPN not seeing anything > To: Orange County Linux Users Group > Cc: sfvlug at sfvlug.org, sgvlug at sgvlug.net > Message-ID: <679728.2699.qm at web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > First off, I want to thank everyone about the GMail comments.? GMail > was indeed greylisting me, and it is still taking about 10 hours for > mail to get through.? Oh well... > > I'm now facing down a new breed of problem - OpenVPN.? I've gotten it > set up and installed on a CentOS box on a public IP, but when I > connect (I'm using Tunnel Blick for the Mac as my client) I suddenly > lose all connectivity to the world around me.? It's not just hostnames > not resolving... I can't even hit any numerical IPs, except my local > gateway. > > Oddly enough, any SSH sessions I had open just prior to connecting > still remain open.? Here's my server.conf: > > port 1194 > proto tcp > dev tun > ca keys/ca.crt > cert keys/virdev01.crt > key keys/virdev01.key > dh keys/dh1024.pem > server 172.16.229.0 255.255.255.0 > client-config-dir ccd > ######### > ######### Put your Public DNS Servers here > ######### > push "dhcp-option DNS 216.187.125.130" > push "dhcp-option DNS 216.187.125.131" > ifconfig-pool-persist ipp.txt > push "redirect-gateway def1" > keepalive 10 120 > comp-lzo > persist-key > persist-tun > status server-tcp.log > verb 3 > > Any help would be totally totally appreciated. > > > Solomon > From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Fri Jul 17 12:49:27 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:49:27 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] FW: problem (outlook hijacking thunderbird...) Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D502@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> [warning: windows content...] Greetings - One of the ladies that works with the genealogical library sent the following message to me - I have some thoughts on it, but wanted some consensus from others before I responded - any gurus around here? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: problem Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:23:14 -0700 From: Fran Bumann To: Tom Emerson [and others] I don't know if any of you can help me, but I'm getting a little desperate. I was just scanning a document in my HP printer/scanner and told it to attach it to an e-mail. It scanned and then sent it to Outlook Express. It has never done this before. It has always gone to my Thunderbird e-mail program where I can choose to send it in either of my two e-mail addresses there. I have tried to delete Outlook Express to no avail. When I opened it to see if I could disable it, it proceded to download my e-mail! I have checked my Earthlink options and Earthlink is checked as my default e-mail and yet every time I scan this article, it puts it into Outlook Express. Naturally I can't send it because I have no outgoing mail with OE. Have any of you an idea of what's going on and how OE has stolen my scanning/e-mailing capability. Virg is puzzled and cannot help. I'm about to shoot Bill Gates! Fran ============================ And today a followup [actually, I missed the original - the followup prompted me to send this...] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: the hijacking Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:44:11 -0700 From: Fran Bumann To: Richard Emerson, Tom Emerson I am unable to determine which of the June Microsoft updates caused the e-mail hijacking. They all say about the same thing - no details. The problem is that when I scan to e-mail, it goes to Microsoft Outlook which I don't use. It has always gone to Thunderbird which is my default e-mail program. Virg tried to go in and delete Outlook, and it would re-appear in about 5 seconds. So, I need to be able to either 1) get rid of Outlook , or 2) to find out which update caused this problem to arise and undo that update. Not being able to scan directly to e-mail is a big problem with all my research, etc. As you may recall, Betty Jones is having the exact same problem. Any ideas? Fran p.s. As an added frustration, today I found that Mozy has also not successfully backed-up my computer in a month. It says it's getting a firewall error. But, Mozy is permitted in my list. So, while I was feeling good about having this off-site backup, now I find that for the last month, nothing has been saved! ============================ So, that's the background - I suspect that, as she pointed out, "one of the updates" from microsoft has reset the "default mail client" setting so that it is now outlook (express). I see in the thunderbird settings page there is an option for "always check if thunderbird is the default" and a "check now" button - I imagine that will solve her immediate problem (any ideas on the firewall problem though?) -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: gpgol000.txt Url: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20090717/edfa2b72/attachment.txt From JimW at dynashoe.com Fri Jul 17 13:22:04 2009 From: JimW at dynashoe.com (DYN: Jim Workman) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:22:04 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] FW: problem (outlook hijacking thunderbird...) In-Reply-To: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D502@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C03038FA1@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> It may create the file with .eml extension which is associated with Outlook Express. This can be changed from Windows Explorer or My Computer: Tools>Folder Options>File Types Scroll down to EMF extension & change to Open With Thunderbird Jim Workman -----Original Message----- From: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net [mailto:sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net] On Behalf Of Emerson, Tom (*IC) Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:49 PM To: 'SGVLUG Discussion List.' Subject: [SGVLUG] FW: problem (outlook hijacking thunderbird...) [warning: windows content...] Greetings - One of the ladies that works with the genealogical library sent the following message to me - I have some thoughts on it, but wanted some consensus from others before I responded - any gurus around here? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: problem Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:23:14 -0700 From: Fran Bumann To: Tom Emerson [and others] I don't know if any of you can help me, but I'm getting a little desperate. I was just scanning a document in my HP printer/scanner and told it to attach it to an e-mail. It scanned and then sent it to Outlook Express. It has never done this before. It has always gone to my Thunderbird e-mail program where I can choose to send it in either of my two e-mail addresses there. I have tried to delete Outlook Express to no avail. When I opened it to see if I could disable it, it proceded to download my e-mail! I have checked my Earthlink options and Earthlink is checked as my default e-mail and yet every time I scan this article, it puts it into Outlook Express. Naturally I can't send it because I have no outgoing mail with OE. Have any of you an idea of what's going on and how OE has stolen my scanning/e-mailing capability. Virg is puzzled and cannot help. I'm about to shoot Bill Gates! Fran ============================ And today a followup [actually, I missed the original - the followup prompted me to send this...] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: the hijacking Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:44:11 -0700 From: Fran Bumann To: Richard Emerson, Tom Emerson I am unable to determine which of the June Microsoft updates caused the e-mail hijacking. They all say about the same thing - no details. The problem is that when I scan to e-mail, it goes to Microsoft Outlook which I don't use. It has always gone to Thunderbird which is my default e-mail program. Virg tried to go in and delete Outlook, and it would re-appear in about 5 seconds. So, I need to be able to either 1) get rid of Outlook , or 2) to find out which update caused this problem to arise and undo that update. Not being able to scan directly to e-mail is a big problem with all my research, etc. As you may recall, Betty Jones is having the exact same problem. Any ideas? Fran p.s. As an added frustration, today I found that Mozy has also not successfully backed-up my computer in a month. It says it's getting a firewall error. But, Mozy is permitted in my list. So, while I was feeling good about having this off-site backup, now I find that for the last month, nothing has been saved! ============================ So, that's the background - I suspect that, as she pointed out, "one of the updates" from microsoft has reset the "default mail client" setting so that it is now outlook (express). I see in the thunderbird settings page there is an option for "always check if thunderbird is the default" and a "check now" button - I imagine that will solve her immediate problem (any ideas on the firewall problem though?) From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 13:30:23 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:30:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] FW: problem (outlook hijacking thunderbird...) In-Reply-To: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C03038FA1@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Message-ID: <501439.87552.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> or, if you can, remove outlook express ;) --- On Fri, 7/17/09, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: > From: DYN: Jim Workman > Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] FW: problem (outlook hijacking thunderbird...) > To: "SGVLUG Discussion List." > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 1:22 PM > It may create the file with .eml > extension which is associated with > Outlook Express.? This can be changed from Windows > Explorer or My > Computer: > Tools>Folder Options>File Types > Scroll down to EMF extension & change to Open With > Thunderbird > > Jim Workman From charles at thewybles.com Fri Jul 17 13:32:56 2009 From: charles at thewybles.com (Charles Wyble) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:32:56 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] FW: problem (outlook hijacking thunderbird...) In-Reply-To: <501439.87552.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <501439.87552.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A60DFF8.6010206@thewybles.com> NUKE IT FROM ORBIT!!!! rm -rf /Applications/Outlook Express oh... it's windows... hmmm. there might be a way to do it involving some deep dark magic. matti wrote: > > or, if you can, remove outlook express ;) > > > > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: > >> From: DYN: Jim Workman >> Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] FW: problem (outlook hijacking thunderbird...) >> To: "SGVLUG Discussion List." >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 1:22 PM >> It may create the file with .eml >> extension which is associated with >> Outlook Express. This can be changed from Windows >> Explorer or My >> Computer: >> Tools>Folder Options>File Types >> Scroll down to EMF extension & change to Open With >> Thunderbird >> >> Jim Workman > > > > > From johnlowry at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 14:07:10 2009 From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:07:10 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] FW: problem (outlook hijacking thunderbird...) In-Reply-To: <4A60DFF8.6010206@thewybles.com> References: <501439.87552.qm@web33503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A60DFF8.6010206@thewybles.com> Message-ID: <4A60E7FE.6060308@gmail.com> She can also set Thunderbird to be the default mail client in Windows. If she applied updated, Outlook Express may have reset itself as the default program. Control Panel > Internet Options > Programs> set Email to Thunderbird. With Vista there is a "Default Programs" button in the start menu. Also check the scanning software, it might have been configured to not look at default email programs, but to use Outlook Express directly. As another work around she can also try to save the scan as a .pdf file. Charles Wyble wrote: > NUKE IT FROM ORBIT!!!! > > rm -rf /Applications/Outlook Express > > oh... it's windows... hmmm. there might be a way to do it involving some > deep dark magic. > > matti wrote: >> >> or, if you can, remove outlook express ;) >> >> >> >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: >> >>> From: DYN: Jim Workman >>> Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] FW: problem (outlook hijacking thunderbird...) >>> To: "SGVLUG Discussion List." >>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 1:22 PM >>> It may create the file with .eml >>> extension which is associated with >>> Outlook Express. This can be changed from Windows >>> Explorer or My >>> Computer: >>> Tools>Folder Options>File Types >>> Scroll down to EMF extension & change to Open With >>> Thunderbird >>> >>> Jim Workman >> >> >> >> From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Mon Jul 20 13:45:31 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:45:31 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Upcoming meeting topics - what's confirmed, what do you want to see? Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D577@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> I believe we have a speaker confirmed for September (should be of interest to students) though I don't think I have a write-up of the topic to post on the site For August, I think we have a great idea for a topic, but I don't think we have a "confirmed" speaker yet. [and I'm not /really/ prepared to do it myself] After that, things are wide open - what (or who) do you want to see or hear in the coming months? From dvdmatt at gmail.com Mon Jul 20 16:43:52 2009 From: dvdmatt at gmail.com (Matt Campbell) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 16:43:52 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Upcoming meeting topics - what's confirmed, what do you want to see? In-Reply-To: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D577@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D577@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <000901ca0993$f14fecf0$d3efc6d0$@com> I ran into the Zombie Hunters this weekend up at Mount Pacifico this weekend. I think they might be an interesting 5-10 minute warmup presentation sometime soon and may be a source for new members. Matt > -----Original Message----- > From: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net [mailto:sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net] On > Behalf Of Emerson, Tom (*IC) > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 1:46 PM > To: 'SGVLUG Discussion List.' > Subject: [SGVLUG] Upcoming meeting topics - what's confirmed, what do > you want to see? > > I believe we have a speaker confirmed for September (should be of > interest to students) though I don't think I have a write-up of the > topic to post on the site > > For August, I think we have a great idea for a topic, but I don't think > we have a "confirmed" speaker yet. [and I'm not /really/ prepared to > do it myself] > > After that, things are wide open - what (or who) do you want to see or > hear in the coming months? From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 20 18:16:01 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 18:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] Upcoming meeting topics - what's confirmed, what do you want to see? In-Reply-To: <000901ca0993$f14fecf0$d3efc6d0$@com> Message-ID: <393312.14027.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > > I believe we have a speaker confirmed for September > (should be of > > interest to students) though I don't think I have a > write-up of the > > topic to post on the site iirc I believe we were talking October meeting as that would be the first time the students would be back for a meeting. thanks matti From skevin521 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 21 10:34:04 2009 From: skevin521 at yahoo.com (Solomon K. Chang) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] Upcoming meeting topics - what's confirmed, what do you want to see? Message-ID: <494797.55746.qm@web50904.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Zombie hunters? Really? Does that mean that we can ask them not to kill their quarry, and donate those warm, er, room-temperature bodies to our group? Or is this to imply that our members are listless and zoned out? Solomon (Who, working 60 hours per week currently is feeling like a zombie himself) --- On Mon, 7/20/09, Matt Campbell wrote: > From: Matt Campbell > Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] Upcoming meeting topics - what's confirmed, what do you want to see? > To: "'SGVLUG Discussion List.'" > Date: Monday, July 20, 2009, 4:43 PM > I ran into the Zombie Hunters this > weekend up at Mount Pacifico this > weekend.? I think they might be an interesting 5-10 > minute warmup > presentation sometime soon and may be a source for new > members. > > Matt > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net > [mailto:sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net] > On > > Behalf Of Emerson, Tom (*IC) > > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 1:46 PM > > To: 'SGVLUG Discussion List.' > > Subject: [SGVLUG] Upcoming meeting topics - what's > confirmed, what do > > you want to see? > > > > I believe we have a speaker confirmed for September > (should be of > > interest to students) though I don't think I have a > write-up of the > > topic to post on the site > > > > For August, I think we have a great idea for a topic, > but I don't think > > we have a "confirmed" speaker yet.? [and I'm not > /really/ prepared to > > do it myself] > > > > After that, things are wide open - what (or who) do > you want to see or > > hear in the coming months? > > From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Tue Jul 21 15:23:06 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:23:06 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Dev/admin sig for August: backup server Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D611@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> First off, the next Devsig meeting will be quite early in the month of August - in fact, it will be on the 1rst! At the last meeting we got the kinks worked out for some e-mail accounts, and tuoched upon some of the discussion as to why they were having problems in the first place: the "backups" that the system was making were filling the drive/partition where the e-mail configurations were stored... This month my dad and I will be renovating some old hardware to add to their network to work as a "backup server" - and by this, I don't mean the kind that stands-in for the primary server should it fail, but rather a server that sits on the net and actively probes-and-pulls data from the other computers in order to make a backup. Anyone with experience in setting up this type of server is welcome to lend a hand on the logistics and configuration; anyone interested in LEARNING how to create such a server should plan on attending (though space will be limited - seems there will be some other groups in attendance that day - please RSVP to me(*)) Some of the details that we will work out at the meeting will be the actual network configuration (the library has multiple subnets to keep the "webserver" in the DMZ and the rest of the "client" computers safe from the the big-bad-internet...) Also up for discussion will be the backup strategy and configuration of the software [most likely we will use "Amanda", but if you have a better suggestion we're all ears...] Tom (*) I've set up a facebook "group" for SGVLUG and set this up as a "closed" event - if your on facebook, join the group and send a request to be invited - if you're not on facebook, send a message either to my home address [osnut at pacbell.net] or work [tom.emerson at wbconsultant.com] And a final p.s.: although I've posted this announcement on the main list, I'd like to keep discussion on the dev-sig list - see the sgvlug website for details on joining the devsig list. From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Tue Jul 21 15:35:17 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:35:17 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D616@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> As much as I hate to do this, it looks like I need to find a better dynamic DNS host than dyndns.org - I've been with them for a really long time, and my IP is static, but it seems they've recently instituted a policy whereby you need to "log in" to their server at least once a month to maintain your account - since I tend to be a bit lazy, I don't remember to do this in time and my account gets deleted (yeah, I suppose I could send $$$ to keep this from happening as well, but read the last sentence again: I'm too lazy...) Any suggestions? From bb.odenthal at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 15:38:40 2009 From: bb.odenthal at gmail.com (bb.odenthal at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:38:40 +0000 Subject: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... Message-ID: <1256139595-1248215925-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1772745967-@bxe1073.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Perhaps Perl Net::Mechanize, wget, curl or links (lynx) via crontab? -bb ------Original Message------ From: Emerson, Tom (*IC) Sender: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net To: 'SGVLUG Discussion List ' ReplyTo: SGVLUG Discussion List. Subject: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... Sent: Jul 21, 2009 15:35 As much as I hate to do this, it looks like I need to find a better dynamic DNS host than dyndns.org - I've been with them for a really long time, and my IP is static, but it seems they've recently instituted a policy whereby you need to "log in" to their server at least once a month to maintain your account - since I tend to be a bit lazy, I don't remember to do this in time and my account gets deleted (yeah, I suppose I could send $$$ to keep this from happening as well, but read the last sentence again: I'm too lazy...) Any suggestions? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From sean at seanodonnell.com Tue Jul 21 17:15:09 2009 From: sean at seanodonnell.com (Sean) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:15:09 -0600 Subject: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... Message-ID: apt-get install ddclient --------- Original Message -------- From: SGVLUG Discussion List. To: SGVLUG Discussion List. Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... Date: 21/07/09 22:38 > Perhaps Perl Net::Mechanize, wget, curl or links (lynx) via crontab? > > -bb > ------Original Message------ > From: Emerson, Tom (*IC) > Sender: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net > To: 'SGVLUG Discussion List ' > ReplyTo: SGVLUG Discussion List. > Subject: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... > Sent: Jul 21, 2009 15:35 > > As much as I hate to do this, it looks like I need to find a better dynamic DNS host than dyndns.org - I've been with them for a really long time, and my IP is static, but it seems they've recently instituted a policy whereby you need to "log in" to their server at least once a month to maintain your account - since I tend to be a bit lazy, I don't remember to do this in time and my account gets deleted (yeah, I suppose I could send $$$ to keep this from happening as well, but read the last sentence again: I'm too lazy...) > > Any suggestions? > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.9 From jasonrkr at charter.net Tue Jul 21 17:31:43 2009 From: jasonrkr at charter.net (Jason Riker) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:31:43 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Dev/admin sig for August: backup server In-Reply-To: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D611@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D611@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <000c01ca0a63$ca37e020$5ea7a060$@net> Tom, Do you have need of an old server for them? I have one that's not being used and wouldn't mind donating it to a worthy cause. Jason -----Original Message----- From: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net [mailto:sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net] On Behalf Of Emerson, Tom (*IC) Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:23 PM To: 'dev-sig at sgvlug.org' Cc: 'SGVLUG Discussion List.' Subject: [SGVLUG] Dev/admin sig for August: backup server First off, the next Devsig meeting will be quite early in the month of August - in fact, it will be on the 1rst! At the last meeting we got the kinks worked out for some e-mail accounts, and tuoched upon some of the discussion as to why they were having problems in the first place: the "backups" that the system was making were filling the drive/partition where the e-mail configurations were stored... This month my dad and I will be renovating some old hardware to add to their network to work as a "backup server" - and by this, I don't mean the kind that stands-in for the primary server should it fail, but rather a server that sits on the net and actively probes-and-pulls data from the other computers in order to make a backup. Anyone with experience in setting up this type of server is welcome to lend a hand on the logistics and configuration; anyone interested in LEARNING how to create such a server should plan on attending (though space will be limited - seems there will be some other groups in attendance that day - please RSVP to me(*)) Some of the details that we will work out at the meeting will be the actual network configuration (the library has multiple subnets to keep the "webserver" in the DMZ and the rest of the "client" computers safe from the the big-bad-internet...) Also up for discussion will be the backup strategy and configuration of the software [most likely we will use "Amanda", but if you have a better suggestion we're all ears...] Tom (*) I've set up a facebook "group" for SGVLUG and set this up as a "closed" event - if your on facebook, join the group and send a request to be invited - if you're not on facebook, send a message either to my home address [osnut at pacbell.net] or work [tom.emerson at wbconsultant.com] And a final p.s.: although I've posted this announcement on the main list, I'd like to keep discussion on the dev-sig list - see the sgvlug website for details on joining the devsig list. From cafelizardo at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 18:04:38 2009 From: cafelizardo at gmail.com (Claude Felizardo) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:04:38 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... In-Reply-To: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D616@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D616@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <971fb34d0907211804i341955b1u167d5d4d0709c01b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Emerson, Tom (*IC) wrote: > As much as I hate to do this, it looks like I need to find a better dynamic DNS host than dyndns.org - I've been with them for a really long time, and my IP is static, but it seems they've recently instituted a policy whereby you need to "log in" to their server at least once a month to maintain your account - since I tend to be a bit lazy, I don't remember to do this in time and my account gets deleted (yeah, I suppose I could send $$$ to keep this from happening as well, but read the last sentence again: I'm too lazy...) > > Any suggestions? Really? I've never had this problem. I logged on for the first time in years a few months ago when I went through the hassle of changing my email address. Has your account actually been deleted? I think I had paid at least once very early on right after I got DSL back in 99? Hmm, looks like I have a legacy non-expiring account that was converted August 31, 2002. claude From jek at ininx.com Wed Jul 22 05:54:40 2009 From: jek at ininx.com (John E. Kreznar) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 05:54:40 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D616@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In a posting purporting to be from "Emerson, Tom (*IC)" but lacking a digital signature, it is written: > ... it looks like I need to find a better dynamic DNS host than > dyndns.org ... > ... my IP is static .... If your IP address is static, why do you need a dynamic DNS host? What are you using it for? - -- John E. Kreznar jek at ininx.com 9F1148454619A5F08550 705961A47CC541AFEF13 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ iD8DBQFKZwwIYaR8xUGv7xMRAq58AJ9jDwKAxwlP/hGCRM1E7qvyMscHAgCfd37F 6LcYoknP0C8fQNPS7fnQqKM= =1lXU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From charles at thewybles.com Wed Jul 22 09:32:53 2009 From: charles at thewybles.com (Charles Wyble) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:32:53 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... In-Reply-To: References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D616@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <4A673F35.5020802@thewybles.com> > If your IP address is static, why do you need a dynamic DNS host? > What are you using it for? Free DNS I imagine. :) I say pay the $5.00 a year or whatever. But that's just me. From kb6llb at mac.com Wed Jul 22 09:37:48 2009 From: kb6llb at mac.com (Paul J. Wilkinson. Ph.D.) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 09:37:48 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... In-Reply-To: References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D616@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <1445A6F6-9A37-4DE3-A247-F3A13D56FDCD@mac.com> Try zoneedit.com They do 5 static for free, and have dynamic capabilities too. On Jul 22, 2009, at 5:54 AM, John E. Kreznar wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > In a posting purporting to be from "Emerson, Tom (*IC)" > but lacking a digital signature, it is > written: > >> ... it looks like I need to find a better dynamic DNS host than >> dyndns.org ... > >> ... my IP is static .... > > If your IP address is static, why do you need a dynamic DNS host? > What are you using it for? > > - -- > John E. Kreznar jek at ininx.com 9F1148454619A5F08550 > 705961A47CC541AFEF13 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ > > > iD8DBQFKZwwIYaR8xUGv7xMRAq58AJ9jDwKAxwlP/hGCRM1E7qvyMscHAgCfd37F > 6LcYoknP0C8fQNPS7fnQqKM= > =1lXU > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From cafelizardo at gmail.com Wed Jul 22 17:45:00 2009 From: cafelizardo at gmail.com (Claude Felizardo) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:45:00 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Looking for dyndns.org replacement suggestions... In-Reply-To: References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D616@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <971fb34d0907221745p41939e61i995752ebdda05e5a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 5:54 AM, John E. Kreznar wrote: > but lacking a digital signature, it is > written: > >> ... it looks like I need to find a better dynamic DNS host than >> dyndns.org ... > >> ... my IP is static .... > > If your IP address is static, why do you need a dynamic DNS host? > What are you using it for? I have a static as well but I use dyndns.org for several reasons: 1) I still haven't decided on a domain name yet but can give out a sub-domain for people to use that is far easier to remember than an IP number. 2) I use their webhop URL forwarding feature to "cloak" the actual address and port of the few services I make available on the net. Sure anyone can look in the frame but most people don't know the difference. I had also wanted to make use of their mailhop outbound and relay services but that was before gmail - why bother setting up and maintaining my own mail server now a days? claude From skevin521 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 22 18:01:04 2009 From: skevin521 at yahoo.com (Solomon K. Chang) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:01:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] Dev/admin sig for August: backup server Message-ID: <197630.13428.qm@web50907.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The 1st? I hope you mean to say it's going to be in Las Vegas. At the Riviera Hotel. And it's on the DC17 schedule somewhere. I don't know anyone who's sticking around town that weekend. Solomon --- On Tue, 7/21/09, Emerson, Tom (*IC) wrote: > From: Emerson, Tom (*IC) > Subject: [SGVLUG] Dev/admin sig for August: backup server > To: "'dev-sig at sgvlug.org'" > Cc: "'SGVLUG Discussion List.'" > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 3:23 PM > First off, the next Devsig meeting > will be quite early in the month of August - in fact, it > will be on the 1rst! > > At the last meeting we got the kinks worked out for some > e-mail accounts, and tuoched upon some of the discussion as > to why they were having problems in the first place: the > "backups" that the system was making were filling the > drive/partition where the e-mail configurations were > stored... > > This month my dad and I will be renovating some old > hardware to add to their network to work as a "backup > server" - and by this, I don't mean the kind that stands-in > for the primary server should it fail, but rather a server > that sits on the net and actively probes-and-pulls data from > the other computers in order to make a backup.? Anyone > with experience in setting up this type of server is welcome > to lend a hand on the logistics and configuration; anyone > interested in LEARNING how to create such a server should > plan on attending (though space will be limited - seems > there will be some other groups in attendance that day - > please RSVP to me(*)) > > Some of the details that we will work out at the meeting > will be the actual network configuration (the library has > multiple subnets to keep the "webserver" in the DMZ and the > rest of the "client" computers safe from the the > big-bad-internet...)? Also up for discussion will be > the backup strategy and configuration of the software [most > likely we will use "Amanda", but if you have a better > suggestion we're all ears...] > > Tom > > (*) I've set up a facebook "group" for SGVLUG and set this > up as a "closed" event - if your on facebook, join the group > and send a request to be invited - if you're not on > facebook, send a message either to my home address [osnut at pacbell.net] > or work [tom.emerson at wbconsultant.com] > > And a final p.s.: although I've posted this announcement on > the main list, I'd like to keep discussion on the dev-sig > list - see the sgvlug website for details on joining the > devsig list. > From JimW at dynashoe.com Thu Jul 23 12:54:49 2009 From: JimW at dynashoe.com (DYN: Jim Workman) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:54:49 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater Message-ID: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C0310A16E@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Off Topic (To The Max): I need to replace my water heater and am considering a tankless model. Is anyone already using this new technology? Any feedback? Jim Workman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20090723/65f0212a/attachment.html From dank at kegel.com Thu Jul 23 13:09:09 2009 From: dank at kegel.com (Dan Kegel) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:09:09 +0000 Subject: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater In-Reply-To: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C0310A16E@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> References: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C0310A16E@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:54 PM, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: > I need to replace my water heater and am considering a tankless model.? Is > anyone already using this new technology? Yes. It takes just as long or longer to get hot water to our taps with tankless. I regret not wrapping our hot water pipes with insulation, hope to do it this year. From djbyrne at jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 23 14:21:11 2009 From: djbyrne at jpl.nasa.gov (DJ Byrne) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:21:11 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater In-Reply-To: References: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C0310A16E@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Message-ID: On Jul 23, 2009, at 12:54 PM, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:54 PM, DYN: Jim > Workman wrote: >> I need to replace my water heater and am considering a tankless >> model. Is >> anyone already using this new technology? > > Yes. It takes just as long or longer to get hot water to our > taps with tankless. I regret not wrapping our hot water pipes > with insulation, hope to do it this year. I put in a tankless water heater around seven years ago. Bosch 125X I recommend against it. It runs OK but is a maintenance problem. You're supposed to re-build the water valve every 3 years with a $45 kit of gaskets and replacement screws. Naturally I forgot, and the result last month was that a slow leak built up minerals over time, fusing the water valve to the gas valve. Replacing both is about $400. The cost of a refurbished unit is $450 (BOSCH GWH 1600). http://cpotanklesswaterheaters.com/ I got the refurbished one because it would at least be a newer model and under warranty for a while. It doesn't work. After an hour troubleshooting with them on the phone, they're sending out a new electronic control box. There has been no hot water for a couple weeks now. Glad it happened in July and not December. Bosch tech support is pretty good, after you wade through the front line customer service. From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Thu Jul 23 16:44:18 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:44:18 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater In-Reply-To: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C0310A16E@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D753@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> -----Original Message----- Of DYN: Jim Workman Off Topic (To The Max): I need to replace my water heater and am considering a tankless model. Is anyone already using this new technology? Any feedback? ======================= I had one installed last winter - since this is now outside the house "near" the gas feed line, it is now on the "other side" of the house from where it was before. Net result is that the taps that were close to the old location now take about a minute before the "hot" water gets there (OTOH, the bathroom just the other side of the wall from the new location gets hot water in about 5-10 seconds ;) ) Minor plus: this has freed up room inside the house for shelving / cleaning-supply storage (although considering the actual size of these units, had I gone for an ELECTRIC heater instead of GAS, I could have installed it in the same location AND had room for vacuums, mops, and chemicals...) Cost to run the gas line tends to be a hidden "gotcha" - if you're doing a major remodel or a new build, this would be the time to do it as the cost gets absorbed into the larger project. Unlike a traditional heater, these need a much larger gas feed - usually 3/4" or 1", compared to a 1/2" pipe for a regular heater. Distance from the gas main is also apparently a concern, which is why mine was mounted on the other side of the house. So, now for the tough questions: 1) how many people do you need to "serve" with this heater? -- how many bathrooms -- with shower/tubs -- automatic dishwasher or do you wash them by hand? -- ditto for the clothes [hey, it's possible...] == showers typically run at 3-5 gpm; washers about the same (though the items being washed are less particular about the temp or the time it takes to get "hot" than most humans...) == sinks may run at 1 to 1-1/2 gpm, though you might consider a flow-restrictor to keep it at 1/2 to 1 == add up the gpm needed to run "all the taps you expect to be open" at any given time to determine the size you need (or take the shortcut: 7-10 gpm is typical for a family of 4...] (aside: even though I do have 2 showers, I talked the plumber into a slightly smaller unit since I'm single, so I ended up with one rated for about 5 gpm overall instead of 7) 2) how "hot" do you actually want the water to be? Note the above "flow rate" is the maximum flow that the heater will heat to (approx) 60 degrees ABOVE the ambient water temperature - even in the dead of winter, I measured the "cold" water at 65 degrees, which is perfect as the recommended output is 125 degrees (aside: I probably will want to push this up another 5-10 degrees in the winter to counter heat losses in the pipe -- of course, it's also "on the list" to get the pipes wrapped with foam... [just like it's on the list to patch the holes in my swamp cooler's water basin...]) 3) gas or electric? There are some websites that really (really!) knock electric heaters, but that is because they're talking about use in Michigan or similar ;) Here in california, it's about break-even as to cost vs. effectiveness - if you've already got an electric stove or other high current circuit (50-75 amps), then it is certainly worth considering; otherwise the cost of installing that might make it too expensive [and to further tip the scales to gas, the gas company does offer an incentive; your city may offer an incetive as well] 4) central unit or point-of-use? This is something that rarely gets discussed or considered - you can get a point-of-use heater for, say, your kitchen sink for less than $200 (maybe even 100 by now) and this will give you endless HOT HOT water in about 3-5 seconds. Of course, you can augment a full-house system with point-of-use devices to get the best of both worlds. I've even seen some ads for electric shower heads (though they looked really dodgy...) 4a) point-of-use storage tanks - instead of a 30-50 gallon central heater, these units store about 2-5 gallons heated locally for where they are used. They have a far lower electrical requirement since they can heat the water relatively slowly rather than attempt to push the temp up 50 or 60 degrees at 1gpm or more 5) for the ultimate in "conservation", consider a recirculation pump to feed the "cold" water in the pipe(s) back to the heater until the "hot" water reaches the tap. Personally, I think it's just a gimick, and some really serious back-of-the-envelope calculations showed that this is unlikely to actually save you any money (do you realize how cheap water REALLY is?)(*) [remember from point 1 about flow rates - if it takes "only a minute" for hot water to reach the destination, you would only "save" 1-3 gallons by recirculating it back through the system. The pump takes some energy to run as well, and if you get down to it, it could cost MORE to move the water through the system than you would have "lost" by letting it drain...] Tom (*) water rates: take a look at your bill - notice water usage is measured in some arcane measurement labled "hcf" which stands for "hundred cubic-feet". Furthermore, I know it doesn't look it when you look at a -5- gallon sparkletts water bottle, but a "cubic foot" of water is over 7 gallons! 1hcf is something like 750 gallons (748 to be exact, at least per this site: http://www.irwd.com/MediaInfo/water_equivalents.php) Take another look at your bill - around here, you pay either $0.73 or $1.45 for that "hcf" [first 10 hcf are at $0.73; after that it jumps to the higher rate -- see http://www.glendalewaterandpower.com/rates/water.aspx] So that's 73 cents for over 730 gallons - that's less than .1 cent per gallon - now you know why selling "bottled water" is so profitable... From charles at thewybles.com Thu Jul 23 18:03:39 2009 From: charles at thewybles.com (Charles Wyble) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:03:39 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater In-Reply-To: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D753@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18D753@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <4A69086B.6070508@thewybles.com> Something something home automation? :) Emerson, Tom (*IC) wrote: > -----Original Message----- Of DYN: Jim Workman > > Off Topic (To The Max): > I need to replace my water heater and am considering a tankless model. Is anyone already using this new technology? > Any feedback? > ======================= > > I had one installed last winter - since this is now outside the house "near" the gas feed line, it is now on the "other side" of the house from where it was before. Net result is that the taps that were close to the old location now take about a minute before the "hot" water gets there (OTOH, the bathroom just the other side of the wall from the new location gets hot water in about 5-10 seconds ;) ) > > Minor plus: this has freed up room inside the house for shelving / cleaning-supply storage (although considering the actual size of these units, had I gone for an ELECTRIC heater instead of GAS, I could have installed it in the same location AND had room for vacuums, mops, and chemicals...) > > Cost to run the gas line tends to be a hidden "gotcha" - if you're doing a major remodel or a new build, this would be the time to do it as the cost gets absorbed into the larger project. Unlike a traditional heater, these need a much larger gas feed - usually 3/4" or 1", compared to a 1/2" pipe for a regular heater. Distance from the gas main is also apparently a concern, which is why mine was mounted on the other side of the house. > > So, now for the tough questions: > > 1) how many people do you need to "serve" with this heater? > -- how many bathrooms > -- with shower/tubs > -- automatic dishwasher or do you wash them by hand? > -- ditto for the clothes [hey, it's possible...] > From x at xman.org Thu Jul 23 21:03:45 2009 From: x at xman.org (Christopher Smith) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:03:45 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater In-Reply-To: References: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C0310A16E@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Message-ID: <4A6932A1.2010108@xman.org> Dan Kegel wrote: > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:54 PM, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: > >> I need to replace my water heater and am considering a tankless model. Is >> anyone already using this new technology? >> > > Yes. It takes just as long or longer to get hot water to our > taps with tankless. I regret not wrapping our hot water pipes > with insulation, hope to do it this year. > If you have long pipes, it can be helpful to set up small electrical tankless heaters at the end points. We almost went tankless, but ran in to problems with our natural gas line not being wide enough in diameter along with ventilation challenges. In general, the win with tankless isn't so much that of a win in terms of how quickly you get hot water (tank-based systems usually have plenty of hot water in the thank... it just takes a while to get it to you), but rather energy savings and the "never emptying tank" feature for those who could care less about energy savings and would like to take a 30-minute shower. --Chris From cafelizardo at gmail.com Fri Jul 24 01:04:24 2009 From: cafelizardo at gmail.com (Claude Felizardo) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:04:24 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater In-Reply-To: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C0310A16E@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> References: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C0310A16E@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Message-ID: <971fb34d0907240104u315d77f3y9e5e335c0b645b6e@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 12:54 PM, DYN: Jim Workman wrote: > Off Topic (To The Max): > > I need to replace my water heater and am considering a tankless model.? Is > anyone already using this new technology? > > Any feedback? > > > > Jim Workman When we did our remodel 8 years ago, we wanted to move the water heater somewhere else so we could move the clothes dryer inside instead of behind the house. We considered a tank-less instant water heater but were told we would need to have a new gas line put in. So we had them carve out some space in the corner of the new family room for a water heater closet with the access door out back. Once they framed it out I realized I if we doubled the cut out in the family room I could get a data closet out if it. woo hoo! Anyway a friend of mine went tank-less for his remodel but he installed a recirc pump so this loop becomes his storage tank. I believe it's on a timer so it only runs during the hours when they are likely to need hot water. Don't recall what happens if you need hot water during "off" hours. He's had it maybe a year so I'll have to ask him how it's working out. My neighbors across the street also installed a tank-less system but that was early this year so I don't know if they have anything to say about it yet. claude From mathew_2000 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 24 17:38:20 2009 From: mathew_2000 at yahoo.com (matti) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 17:38:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater In-Reply-To: <971fb34d0907240104u315d77f3y9e5e335c0b645b6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <998948.60767.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> imho - traditionally a water heater should be central to the bathrooms/kitchen locations. OR else you suffer waiting and waiting... circulating loops to put hot water to reduce the time of hot water is not very efficient, and uses a lot of electricity ( tho I liked the timer idea.. ) ALSO it makes the system more complex as when the pump breaks.. ( I had to have one removed... as it was DEAD and used a 30AMP circuit!! ) also unless you can insulate the circuit well you will lose a lot of heat... most commercial bldgs use spot heating.. which seems to work great for sinks, but i don't know if they would be good for showering. let us know how it works ;) matti From jana.lingo at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 07:57:37 2009 From: jana.lingo at gmail.com (Jana Lingo) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:57:37 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] pJUG meeting tonight - aigle Message-ID: We welcome back Ashish Gupta as he covers the basics of Agile development. Also, Sun has sent us our annual shipment of Java Schwag, so we should have a freebie for everyone, besides the Free Pizza. Our meeting, will as usual, be held in the EHarmony lunchroom at 888 E Walnut (SW corner of Lake, aka Indy Mac building) at 7 PM. Please park in the Garage behind the building (you will be compensated) The lunchroom is on the west side building facing Walnut. the meeting will be from 7-8:30ish PM, and Eharmony will be providing Free Pizza and Soda, and our sponsor will be be providing Free Copies of IntelliJ and Java Rebel, plus other schwag Hope to see you there! From skevin521 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 27 18:31:32 2009 From: skevin521 at yahoo.com (Solomon K. Chang) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:31:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [SGVLUG] Defcon Attendence? Message-ID: <117946.62115.qm@web50912.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Before leaving this Thursday, I'd like to put the question out as to who here is going to Defcon 17. (No, I'm not asking to try to find a room to share. I already have a suite, and yes, my suite is full. I'm just asking to see which people in my social circle are in attendence.) Solomon From bb.odenthal at gmail.com Mon Jul 27 18:41:41 2009 From: bb.odenthal at gmail.com (bb.odenthal at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 01:41:41 +0000 Subject: [SGVLUG] Defcon Attendence? Message-ID: <1556970957-1248745383-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2068882493-@bxe1073.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Solomon, I'll be there! -bb #insert witty statement here ------Original Message------ From: Solomon K. Chang Sender: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net To: SGVLUG Discussion List. To: sfvlug at sfvlug.org ReplyTo: SGVLUG Discussion List. Subject: [SGVLUG] Defcon Attendence? Sent: Jul 27, 2009 18:31 Before leaving this Thursday, I'd like to put the question out as to who here is going to Defcon 17. (No, I'm not asking to try to find a room to share. I already have a suite, and yes, my suite is full. I'm just asking to see which people in my social circle are in attendence.) Solomon Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From dave at lafn.org Mon Jul 27 19:40:03 2009 From: dave at lafn.org (David Lawyer) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 19:40:03 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater In-Reply-To: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C0310A16E@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> References: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C0310A16E@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> Message-ID: <20090728024003.GB1992@davespc> I'm currently installing a tankless. This house originally had a tankless in 1923 and it worked good. It had a pan underneath to catch the condensation water (the water vapor in the exhaust is converted to liquid water by a counterflow heat exchanger so that the latent heat of vaporization of the combustion water goes to heat the house water). So I paid more and bought the latest condensing type water heater since a year or so ago they rediscovered the 90-year-old condensation technology. I bought a Navien which is supposed to be 98 % efficient. But I have yet to hang it on the wall since I need to mount it in a corner and the wall studs in the corner only have 3/4" of their edge directly behind the plaster and the other 1 1/4" is inside the intersection of the two walls. I've finally figured out how to do it by putting screws in at an angle, etc. Our hose has a 1 1/4 " main gas line and used to have a notice near the meter not to restrict the flow. But both the meter and the 1/2" connector piping that was installed near the meter restrict the flow so the gas co. is coming out to install a larger meter and hopefully larger piping near the meter. This water heater has both water pipe nipples and a gas line nipple on the bottom, all at the same distance from the wall. This is going to make it hard to connect it up using rigid pipe since pipes need to cross over each other and two of these must go the pipes that enter the house area on an adjacent wall. So I may have to resort to using flexible tubing for both gas and water. When I bought it they tried to sell me a $70 installation kit which makes it easy to use vinegar to flush out the unit every year or so. I was incorrectly told that the guarantee requires that this be done. But the manufacturer's rep say not so and that the calcium in Pasadena water shouldn't stick much to the stainless steel heat exchanger (which is guaranteed 15 years). So I'm glad to see this house revert to it's original type of water heater, but how well it will work out is something I don't know yet. One ominous sign is that the instructions say the holes drilled on the mounting bracket are 16" apart for 16" stud spacing. I got one with 15 1/2" spacing and was told that I'm the first one to complain to the local rep. about this. So thus far it doesn't look that great. Another problem is the rebate (indirectly from the gas co.) They state that it must be installed by a contractor, but I'm going to list myself as the "contractor", have it inspected by the city, and claim a $200 rebate. The rep. thought that should be OK but ... David Lawyer From JimW at dynashoe.com Tue Jul 28 07:59:07 2009 From: JimW at dynashoe.com (DYN: Jim Workman) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:59:07 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater In-Reply-To: <20090728024003.GB1992@davespc> Message-ID: <6A5F5DA3F333D74E8C058118B22CB39C031E39EC@DYNMAIL.dynashoe.com> I want to thank all who responded. I can now go forward thoroughly confused;-) Jim Workman -----Original Message----- From: sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net [mailto:sgvlug-bounces at sgvlug.net] On Behalf Of David Lawyer Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 7:40 PM To: SGVLUG Discussion List. Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] OT(TTM) Tankless Water Heater I'm currently installing a tankless. This house originally had a tankless in 1923 and it worked good. It had a pan underneath to catch the condensation water (the water vapor in the exhaust is converted to liquid water by a counterflow heat exchanger so that the latent heat of vaporization of the combustion water goes to heat the house water). So I paid more and bought the latest condensing type water heater since a year or so ago they rediscovered the 90-year-old condensation technology. I bought a Navien which is supposed to be 98 % efficient. But I have yet to hang it on the wall since I need to mount it in a corner and the wall studs in the corner only have 3/4" of their edge directly behind the plaster and the other 1 1/4" is inside the intersection of the two walls. I've finally figured out how to do it by putting screws in at an angle, etc. Our hose has a 1 1/4 " main gas line and used to have a notice near the meter not to restrict the flow. But both the meter and the 1/2" connector piping that was installed near the meter restrict the flow so the gas co. is coming out to install a larger meter and hopefully larger piping near the meter. This water heater has both water pipe nipples and a gas line nipple on the bottom, all at the same distance from the wall. This is going to make it hard to connect it up using rigid pipe since pipes need to cross over each other and two of these must go the pipes that enter the house area on an adjacent wall. So I may have to resort to using flexible tubing for both gas and water. When I bought it they tried to sell me a $70 installation kit which makes it easy to use vinegar to flush out the unit every year or so. I was incorrectly told that the guarantee requires that this be done. But the manufacturer's rep say not so and that the calcium in Pasadena water shouldn't stick much to the stainless steel heat exchanger (which is guaranteed 15 years). So I'm glad to see this house revert to it's original type of water heater, but how well it will work out is something I don't know yet. One ominous sign is that the instructions say the holes drilled on the mounting bracket are 16" apart for 16" stud spacing. I got one with 15 1/2" spacing and was told that I'm the first one to complain to the local rep. about this. So thus far it doesn't look that great. Another problem is the rebate (indirectly from the gas co.) They state that it must be installed by a contractor, but I'm going to list myself as the "contractor", have it inspected by the city, and claim a $200 rebate. The rep. thought that should be OK but ... David Lawyer From charles at thewybles.com Tue Jul 28 10:09:22 2009 From: charles at thewybles.com (Charles Wyble) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 10:09:22 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Defcon Attendence? In-Reply-To: <117946.62115.qm@web50912.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <117946.62115.qm@web50912.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A6F30C2.6060008@thewybles.com> I'm in the process of securing a ride/room share, but looks like I will be attending. Solomon K. Chang wrote: > Before leaving this Thursday, I'd like to put the question out as to who here is going to Defcon 17. > > (No, I'm not asking to try to find a room to share. I already have a suite, and yes, my suite is full. I'm just asking to see which people in my social circle are in attendence.) > > Solomon > > > > From Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com Tue Jul 28 13:56:25 2009 From: Tom.Emerson at wbconsultant.com (Emerson, Tom (*IC)) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:56:25 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Tangential topic: new battery tech Message-ID: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18DA47@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> >From my "Prius technical Stuff" list - imagine the run time of a laptop using one of these "batteries" Better still, imagine the run-time of a MAINFRAME using this as a power source... -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [PTS] Credible battery research Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:10:41 -0000 From: Robert J. Wilson Hi, When looking for a high energy density battery, I've long known metal-air was the way to go. It looks like the Japanese have made impressive progress: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/07/aist-lithium-20090727.html#more Energy densities like this make electric aircraft possible. Bob Wilson =================================== [TE] note the comments at the end - someone pointed out that a roughly 50-pound battery would power a Tesla roadster for a year before needing a recharge... (the current tesla pack is something on the order of 600 pounds - I don't know whether or not the commenter took into consideration that 550+ pounds of battery are no longer being carried around...) From thomasmoore at speakeasy.net Tue Jul 28 22:50:41 2009 From: thomasmoore at speakeasy.net (Thomas Moore) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 22:50:41 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Tangential topic: new battery tech In-Reply-To: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18DA47@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18DA47@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: <4A6FE331.6050405@speakeasy.net> I did a very simple calculation, ignoring all possible sources of weight except the lithium and come up with an energy density less than 1/10th the numbers quoted in this paper. Tom Emerson, Tom (*IC) wrote: > >From my "Prius technical Stuff" list - imagine the run time of a laptop using one of these "batteries" > > Better still, imagine the run-time of a MAINFRAME using this as a power source... > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [PTS] Credible battery research > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 19:10:41 -0000 > From: Robert J. Wilson > > Hi, > > When looking for a high energy density battery, I've long known metal-air was the way to go. It looks like the Japanese have made impressive progress: > > http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/07/aist-lithium-20090727.html#more > > Energy densities like this make electric aircraft possible. > > Bob Wilson > =================================== > > [TE] note the comments at the end - someone pointed out that a roughly 50-pound battery would power a Tesla roadster for a year before needing a recharge... (the current tesla pack is something on the order of 600 pounds - I don't know whether or not the commenter took into consideration that 550+ pounds of battery are no longer being carried around...) > > > From stan.ke6zc at gmail.com Wed Jul 29 00:17:48 2009 From: stan.ke6zc at gmail.com (Stan Slonkosky) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 00:17:48 -0700 Subject: [SGVLUG] Tangential topic: new battery tech In-Reply-To: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18DA47@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> References: <8D186948DD442640ADB56A1001FEB3A6267B18DA47@WBWBURPEX7C2M4.amer.warnerbros.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Emerson, Tom (*IC) wrote: > [TE] note the comments at the end - someone pointed out that a roughly 50-pound battery would power a Tesla roadster for a year before needing a recharge... ?(the current tesla pack is something on the order of 600 pounds - I don't know whether or not the commenter took into consideration that 550+ pounds of battery are no longer being carried around...) That calculation was based on the assumption that 1 horsepower = 75 Watts. Since a horsepower is actually 746 Watts, the battery would weigh around 500 lb. Of course, if more than a tiny percentage of the population had electric cars, we'd be experiencing blackouts again as the electric generating capacity to support them just isn't there. Politicians in Sacramento and DC seem opposed to building more nuclear reactors. There was space for another one at San Onofre (although according to a nuclear engineer I met who works there, it is currently being used for storage). Diablo Canyon has space for two more reactors (http://www.kgoradio.com/viewentry.asp?ID=365842&PT=PERSONALITIES). -- Stan Slonkosky